If I bred American Lavender Orpington(Male) to Light Sussex het Coronation(Female) what arrives?

[The-Chick-Inn]

I have these guys and gals separated but an introduction happened and I'm wondering what it will produce. Also are all Light Sussex het for Coronation Sussex or is it just this group in this case?

 

[3riverschick]

Hi ! and

Light Sussex are eWh/ eWh S/S Co/Co They are based on the Wheaten Locus and have 2 copies of the Silver gene and 2 copies of the Columbian gene. It is the Columbian gene which pushes the black to the body extremities so the bird has black on its hackle, tail, and wings. The Coronation Sussex is the same only carries a gene which turns the black parts Lavender. I forget the name of the gene.
The genetics of crossing the Light Sussex and the Cornonation Sussex are interesting.
Honestly why don't you stay in the Sussex breed? Crossbreeding will give you genetic variation which will take 4-6 generations to sort out, if you are fortunate with your matings. There is plenty of genetic variation to carry out a Lavender project in Sussex fowl.
Best,
Karen and the Light Sussex
in western PA, USA

 

[The-Chick-Inn]

So its a double recessive with two copies of the genes needed to make the homozygous form of Light Sussex? The coronation seems to be a pastel axanthic trait that is common in reptile breeding that causes the black to be gray. Its a lineage breed morph too, having to pair the dominate pastel trait with the recessive axanthic trait. So what would result from the lavender light Sussex pairing? I have pure lines of all my groups but there was an accidental breeding and I want to know will be hatching.

 

[Matt1616]

1

 

[Yellow House Farm]

In reality, this would open up a can of worms. The reality is that the White in the Sussex is masking another e-base, with untold modifiers, and the lav gene in your "Orpington" is diluting all sorts of other things on an e-base. In two generations it would spiral out of control into a crazy mess of nothing.

It strikes me that if you know a little about genetics, then you might want to shift to APA birds and the community where you'll really be able to hone your knowledge.

 

[3riverschick]

So its a double recessive with two copies of the genes needed to make the homozygous form of Light Sussex? The coronation seems to be a pastel axanthic trait that is common in reptile breeding that causes the black to be gray.

Its a lineage breed morph too, having to pair the dominate pastel trait with the recessive axanthic trait. So what would result from the lavender light Sussex pairing? I have pure lines of all my groups but there was an accidental breeding and I want to know will be hatching.

If I understand you...no. I think a parallel to what you are describing is like the Maltese color in dogs?
Where a double recessive causes the black to turn a gunmetal grey. This is not so in Coronation Sussex.
The gray is actually caused by a Lavender gene. The changing of the black color is not caused by a
double recessive, as in dogs.
Because the Lavender color in Coronation Sussex is not caused by a double recessive, it is possible to get both
Light and Coronation Sussex out of one mating. It's just simply adding or subtracting the one Lavender gene and
you get ...or don't get... Coronation Sussex. If it was a double recessive causing the Coronation Sussex color,
then I think your inheritance of that gene would be something like 1:27, making occurrence of both colors in one
hatch a rarity. Yellow House Farm is right....due to the plethora of sex linked genes and wide genetic base in poultry,
breeding the 2 colors together is inviting an oncoming maelstrom of color variation.
On the other note, YHF is correct about switching to APA breeds. Sussex is my breed but I don't see the Coronation being approved any time soon. Honestly, I don't think the Sussex breed can successfully handle more than the 3 already approved colors ( Red, Speckled and Light). If you like the Lavender and Blue birds, the APA already has some breeds in those colors which are in need of gifted breeders. They are rare at this point and need more people to love them and conserve them. Let's face it, Blue and Lavender are challenging colors. Not everyone can do them correctly. If you are interested in these colors, I know those approved breeds would love to have you helping to conserve them.
Large fowl: Blue Wyandotte; Blue Jersey Giants; Blue Cochins; Blue Langshans ; Blue Orpingtons; Blue Andalusians; White Crested Blue Polish; Self Blue Old English Games; Blue Sumatras ; Blue Ameraucanas ( lay a blue egg);
Or perhaps bantams are your pleasure: Blue American Game Bantams; Blue Modern game Bantams; Blue Old English game bantams; Blue Andalusian Bantams; Blue Orpington bantams; Blue Plymouth Rock bantams; Blue Belgian Bearded d'Anvers bantams; Self Blue Belgian bearded d'Anver bantams; Blue Rosecomb bantams; Blue Wyandotte bantams; Blue Ameraucana bantams; Blue Sumatra bantams; Self Blue Booted bantams; Self Blue Belgian Bearded d'Uccle bantams; Blue Cochin bantams; Blue Langshan bantams; Blue Bearded ( and non-Bearded) Silkie bantams; Blue Langshan bantams.
The APA Standard of Perfection has portraits of many of these breeds. Some of them so rare I haven't read a mention of them in 5 yrs. on BYC.

Best,
Karen

 

[3riverschick]

I have these guys and gals separated but an introduction happened and I'm wondering what it will produce. Also are all Light Sussex het for Coronation Sussex or is it just this group in this case?

No. Light Sussex are not hetero for Coronation coloring unless they have been specifically bred to Coronation
to create a "split" bird. The Light was developed in the 19teens. The Coronation wasn't developed until around
the 1930's. Light Sussex are eWh/eWh S/S Co/Co . The Coronation Sussex are the same but with an added
Lavender gene. When the Coronation Sussex were recently imported the gene pool was only a few birds.
So folk figured out if they crossed them with Light Sussex ( of which there were already 3 families in the US
consisting of , English, American, and Australian strains ) they could diversify the Coronation gene pool and
still stay in the breed. That is why you are seeing splits out there.
Best Regards,
Karen