International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[HenHouse4Life]

I haven't been on this thread for a bit, been waiting for my juveniles to grow out a bit but wanted to share photos of my favorite boy

 

[kcrandall]

View attachment 1838950
some eggs from my younger pullets .solid black and splash .
those eggs are #6 and #7 but my camera is getting old .I need a new one .
well pleased .they are the darkest of the this year .happy about it .plus those pullets are correct on conformation and comb .
still working on the dog run .few more days and I ll be done . this run is about 75m long 2 to 3 m wide with 2 large ward at each end on the run .this run will be used as well as a cockerels run too .

chooks man

@Chooks man - Very nice egg color! Keith

 

[Chooks man]

I haven't been on this thread for a bit, been waiting for my juveniles to grow out a bit but wanted to share photos of my favorite boyView attachment 1839310 View attachment 1839311 View attachment 1839319

need a better photos . need to see hole bird to tell they body type,
his comb is nice but has extra points.
his copper is too dark Mahogany type ,not good .
love his head and eyes

love to see better photos.
chooks man

 

[Song girl 11]

Update on my incubating mishap. I appreciate the advice I got from you all to keep incubating these eggs. I set 8 (4 BCM and 4 olive egger) ( ameraucana eggs with my BCM roosters over my black Ameraucana hen.) All 4 olive eggers hatched. Pipped on end of day 20 and hatched out on day 21. Only one of my BCM eggs hatched. I always told myself I would never assist a hatch but I'm convinced if I hadn't intervened, I would've ended up with no BCM chicks. After 20+ hours of watching his pipped egg with no zipping, I wrapped the egg in a warm, wet paper towel and gently "zipped" the egg myself. He was weak after pushing out. I was convinced he would die or I had made a horrible mistake by assisting, but the next morning he was up, running around peeping, healthy as could be. On day 23 I did an egg-topsy of my 3 remaining BCM eggs. They all had a tiny blood spot in them and beginning of a tiny embryo development. I'm hoping to improve my next hatch rate next time. I want more BCM hens! What causes early embryo death? Do you think it was the low temp the first 24 hrs of incubation? Or wrong humidity? The BCM chick I had to help out of the egg seemed big...like maybe the reason he couldn't zip is because he was too big to turn in the egg??? Are BCM eggs harder to incubate and hatch? I find it interesting that all 4 olive eggers popped out of their shells healthy and lively and only one BCM chick developed and then needed assistance out of the egg. Any thoughts or advice is appreciated! Pictured is my one little BCM chick.

 

[kcrandall]

View attachment 1840009 Update on my incubating mishap. I appreciate the advice I got from you all to keep incubating these eggs. I set 8 (4 BCM and 4 olive egger) ( ameraucana eggs with my BCM roosters over my black Ameraucana hen.) All 4 olive eggers hatched. Pipped on end of day 20 and hatched out on day 21. Only one of my BCM eggs hatched. I always told myself I would never assist a hatch but I'm convinced if I hadn't intervened, I would've ended up with no BCM chicks. After 20+ hours of watching his pipped egg with no zipping, I wrapped the egg in a warm, wet paper towel and gently "zipped" the egg myself. He was weak after pushing out. I was convinced he would die or I had made a horrible mistake by assisting, but the next morning he was up, running around peeping, healthy as could be. On day 23 I did an egg-topsy of my 3 remaining BCM eggs. They all had a tiny blood spot in them and beginning of a tiny embryo development. I'm hoping to improve my next hatch rate next time. I want more BCM hens! What causes early embryo death? Do you think it was the low temp the first 24 hrs of incubation? Or wrong humidity? The BCM chick I had to help out of the egg seemed big...like maybe the reason he couldn't zip is because he was too big to turn in the egg??? Are BCM eggs harder to incubate and hatch? I find it interesting that all 4 olive eggers popped out of their shells healthy and lively and only one BCM chick developed and then needed assistance out of the egg. Any thoughts or advice is appreciated! Pictured is my one little BCM chick.

@Song girl 11,

I’m happy you got some of your eggs to hatch! I don’t think the low temps had much to do with the poor BCM hatch rate. BCM Eggs are more difficult to hatch because the shells are thicker than other chicken breeds. From your description of the egg-topsey it sounds like the embryos died somewhere between Days 4 thru 7. There are many reasons why an embryo will die in all stages of development even if you did everything correct in terms of incubating.

How did you care for your eggs before incubation: storage temperature, did you turn the eggs, did you wash the eggs, where the eggs free of feces, etc.? Did you sanitize the incubator before incubation? What type of incubator did you use, still air (no fan) or forced air (fan)? What was your temperature setting? What was your humidity reading for the first 18 days and final 3 days? Did you open the incubator during the incubation process? There are many questions that can be asked.

Although the egg collection and incubation process is the same each BCM Breeder has certain techniques that work for the regions where they live. I use a forced air, automatic turning incubator with electronic temp and humidity control. I’m still refining my process but here is what I do:

1. Egg Selection: well shaped egg (no shell deformities), egg must weigh at least 65 grams, egg color must be #6 or darker, egg must be free of dirt, feces, etc.
2. Egg Storage: Do not wash eggs (washing removes the protective blooms thus allowing viruses, bacteria, etc. to enter the shell pores), Eggs are stored in a cool room (65 degrees) with minimal temperature fluctuations, Eggs are turned twice per day so the undeveloped embryo does not get stuck in place, do not store eggs for more than 10 days (viability goes down the older the egg especially after 10-12 days), 24 hours prior to hatch I will move the eggs to a warmer room (75-80 degrees) to allow them to warm up before going into the incubator (reduces temperature shock, condensation).
3. Incubation: I fire up my sanitized incubator 2 days prior to the start of incubation so I can make sure it is operating properly. I set the temperature at 99.5 degrees and humidity level at 40% (actually I’m going to drop my humidity level to 35% next time because I had a few chicks drown when they broke the air sac) then make adjustments as necessary. Once I’m satisfied everything is working properly I will load the eggs small end down. I do not candle during incubation so my incubator will stay closed for the first 18 days. Also I use distilled water for maintaining humidity. Tap water can have trace amounts of chemicals, bacteria, etc.
4. Hatching: On Day 18 I open the incubator to lay the eggs flat on their sides then close it up again. I turn off the automatic turner and crank the humidity up to 65% (so the egg membrane does not dry out while the chick is pipping/hatching). I do not open the incubator until I’m sure all chicks have hatched (usually Day 22-23). Chicks can live up to 3 days without food / water.

My best hatch rate is about 65-70% but as I said I’m still refining my process. Occasionally I will use a broody hen but the hatch rates for my hens has been about 50%. Based on posts I’ve read over the past 5 years Novice BCM Breeders (backyard enthusiasts) generally get between 30-50% hatch rates whereas serious BCM Breeders get closer to 90%. I keep a notebook of each hatch recording the temperature and humidity level (outside & inside the incubator) 3 times per day. Keep incubating, take notes and tweek your process until you get your hatch rate dialed in.

Take Care,
Keith

 

[Song girl 11]

@Song girl 11,

I’m happy you got some of your eggs to hatch! I don’t think the low temps had much to do with the poor BCM hatch rate. BCM Eggs are more difficult to hatch because the shells are thicker than other chicken breeds. From your description of the egg-topsey it sounds like the embryos died somewhere between Days 4 thru 7. There are many reasons why an embryo will die in all stages of development even if you did everything correct in terms of incubating.

How did you care for your eggs before incubation: storage temperature, did you turn the eggs, did you wash the eggs, where the eggs free of feces, etc.? Did you sanitize the incubator before incubation? What type of incubator did you use, still air (no fan) or forced air (fan)? What was your temperature setting? What was your humidity reading for the first 18 days and final 3 days? Did you open the incubator during the incubation process? There are many questions that can be asked.

Although the egg collection and incubation process is the same each BCM Breeder has certain techniques that work for the regions where they live. I use a forced air, automatic turning incubator with electronic temp and humidity control. I’m still refining my process but here is what I do:

1. Egg Selection: well shaped egg (no shell deformities), egg must weigh at least 65 grams, egg color must be #6 or darker, egg must be free of dirt, feces, etc.
2. Egg Storage: Do not wash eggs (washing removes the protective blooms thus allowing viruses, bacteria, etc. to enter the shell pores), Eggs are stored in a cool room (65 degrees) with minimal temperature fluctuations, Eggs are turned twice per day so the undeveloped embryo does not get stuck in place, do not store eggs for more than 10 days (viability goes down the older the egg especially after 10-12 days), 24 hours prior to hatch I will move the eggs to a warmer room (75-80 degrees) to allow them to warm up before going into the incubator (reduces temperature shock, condensation).
3. Incubation: I fire up my sanitized incubator 2 days prior to the start of incubation so I can make sure it is operating properly. I set the temperature at 99.5 degrees and humidity level at 40% (actually I’m going to drop my humidity level to 35% next time because I had a few chicks drown when they broke the air sac) then make adjustments as necessary. Once I’m satisfied everything is working properly I will load the eggs small end down. I do not candle during incubation so my incubator will stay closed for the first 18 days. Also I use distilled water for maintaining humidity. Tap water can have trace amounts of chemicals, bacteria, etc.
4. Hatching: On Day 18 I open the incubator to lay the eggs flat on their sides then close it up again. I turn off the automatic turner and crank the humidity up to 65% (so the egg membrane does not dry out while the chick is pipping/hatching). I do not open the incubator until I’m sure all chicks have hatched (usually Day 22-23). Chicks can live up to 3 days without food / water.

My best hatch rate is about 65-70% but as I said I’m still refining my process. Occasionally I will use a broody hen but the hatch rates for my hens has been about 50%. Based on posts I’ve read over the past 5 years Novice BCM Breeders (backyard enthusiasts) generally get between 30-50% hatch rates whereas serious BCM Breeders get closer to 90%. I keep a notebook of each hatch recording the temperature and humidity level (outside & inside the incubator) 3 times per day. Keep incubating, take notes and tweek your process until you get your hatch rate dialed in.

Take Care,
Keith

Keith, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. Here are the things I think I did right:
-The eggs I used were free from poop/dirt and unwashed.
-they were no more than a week old.
- I kept them in my cool basement pantry that stays a pretty consistent temp.
- I sanitized my incubator.
- I used a separate thermometer inside the incubator( reading the reviews on my incubator, the number one complaint was the digital temp displayed is way off)
- kept a pretty consisted temp of 99.5-100 (after the first 24 hrs of too low of temps, oops!)

Things I did wrong: (some of which I didn't know about until you taught me!)
-I didn't know eggs were suppose to be turned while stored!
-I didn't weigh eggs and didn't know they were suppose to be a certain weight.
-I used tap water in the incubator.
- I did struggle some, getting the humidity stable. And since the digital incubator temp on it is way off, the humidity could be too.
- I candled too much. On days 5, 7, 10, 14 and 18 when I took the automatic turner out and laid them on their sides.

Honestly, the BCM eggs were just too dark to see anything with candling..

I feel like I can fix a lot of things and do a better job next time! Thanks for the info and help, Keith!

--Elise

 

[chickengr]

View attachment 1838950
some eggs from my younger pullets .solid black and splash .
those eggs are #6 and #7 but my camera is getting old .I need a new one .
well pleased .they are the darkest of the this year .happy about it .plus those pullets are correct on conformation and comb .
still working on the dog run .few more days and I ll be done . this run is about 75m long 2 to 3 m wide with 2 large ward at each end on the run .this run will be used as well as a cockerels run too .

chooks man

I am thinking to make dog's run like that. can you post some pics please.

 

[chickengr]

View attachment 1840009 Update on my incubating mishap. I appreciate the advice I got from you all to keep incubating these eggs. I set 8 (4 BCM and 4 olive egger) ( ameraucana eggs with my BCM roosters over my black Ameraucana hen.) All 4 olive eggers hatched. Pipped on end of day 20 and hatched out on day 21. Only one of my BCM eggs hatched. I always told myself I would never assist a hatch but I'm convinced if I hadn't intervened, I would've ended up with no BCM chicks. After 20+ hours of watching his pipped egg with no zipping, I wrapped the egg in a warm, wet paper towel and gently "zipped" the egg myself. He was weak after pushing out. I was convinced he would die or I had made a horrible mistake by assisting, but the next morning he was up, running around peeping, healthy as could be. On day 23 I did an egg-topsy of my 3 remaining BCM eggs. They all had a tiny blood spot in them and beginning of a tiny embryo development. I'm hoping to improve my next hatch rate next time. I want more BCM hens! What causes early embryo death? Do you think it was the low temp the first 24 hrs of incubation? Or wrong humidity? The BCM chick I had to help out of the egg seemed big...like maybe the reason he couldn't zip is because he was too big to turn in the egg??? Are BCM eggs harder to incubate and hatch? I find it interesting that all 4 olive eggers popped out of their shells healthy and lively and only one BCM chick developed and then needed assistance out of the egg. Any thoughts or advice is appreciated! Pictured is my one little BCM chick.

I cannot answer all of your questions but here is what I do when the shell is hard to break: I dip a q tip in vinegar and rub it where the air cell is. the shell gets soft and helps the chick get out.

 

[chickengr]

@Song girl 11,

I’m happy you got some of your eggs to hatch! I don’t think the low temps had much to do with the poor BCM hatch rate. BCM Eggs are more difficult to hatch because the shells are thicker than other chicken breeds. From your description of the egg-topsey it sounds like the embryos died somewhere between Days 4 thru 7. There are many reasons why an embryo will die in all stages of development even if you did everything correct in terms of incubating.

How did you care for your eggs before incubation: storage temperature, did you turn the eggs, did you wash the eggs, where the eggs free of feces, etc.? Did you sanitize the incubator before incubation? What type of incubator did you use, still air (no fan) or forced air (fan)? What was your temperature setting? What was your humidity reading for the first 18 days and final 3 days? Did you open the incubator during the incubation process? There are many questions that can be asked.

Although the egg collection and incubation process is the same each BCM Breeder has certain techniques that work for the regions where they live. I use a forced air, automatic turning incubator with electronic temp and humidity control. I’m still refining my process but here is what I do:

1. Egg Selection: well shaped egg (no shell deformities), egg must weigh at least 65 grams, egg color must be #6 or darker, egg must be free of dirt, feces, etc.
2. Egg Storage: Do not wash eggs (washing removes the protective blooms thus allowing viruses, bacteria, etc. to enter the shell pores), Eggs are stored in a cool room (65 degrees) with minimal temperature fluctuations, Eggs are turned twice per day so the undeveloped embryo does not get stuck in place, do not store eggs for more than 10 days (viability goes down the older the egg especially after 10-12 days), 24 hours prior to hatch I will move the eggs to a warmer room (75-80 degrees) to allow them to warm up before going into the incubator (reduces temperature shock, condensation).
3. Incubation: I fire up my sanitized incubator 2 days prior to the start of incubation so I can make sure it is operating properly. I set the temperature at 99.5 degrees and humidity level at 40% (actually I’m going to drop my humidity level to 35% next time because I had a few chicks drown when they broke the air sac) then make adjustments as necessary. Once I’m satisfied everything is working properly I will load the eggs small end down. I do not candle during incubation so my incubator will stay closed for the first 18 days. Also I use distilled water for maintaining humidity. Tap water can have trace amounts of chemicals, bacteria, etc.
4. Hatching: On Day 18 I open the incubator to lay the eggs flat on their sides then close it up again. I turn off the automatic turner and crank the humidity up to 65% (so the egg membrane does not dry out while the chick is pipping/hatching). I do not open the incubator until I’m sure all chicks have hatched (usually Day 22-23). Chicks can live up to 3 days without food / water.

My best hatch rate is about 65-70% but as I said I’m still refining my process. Occasionally I will use a broody hen but the hatch rates for my hens has been about 50%. Based on posts I’ve read over the past 5 years Novice BCM Breeders (backyard enthusiasts) generally get between 30-50% hatch rates whereas serious BCM Breeders get closer to 90%. I keep a notebook of each hatch recording the temperature and humidity level (outside & inside the incubator) 3 times per day. Keep incubating, take notes and tweek your process until you get your hatch rate dialed in.

Take Care,
Keith

why is the hatch rate with broody hens so low? I had 100% hatch rate all 3 times I hatched with broodies. hens were buff orpington, silkie and greek hooded hen.

 

[marchick]

View attachment 1840009 Update on my incubating mishap. I appreciate the advice I got from you all to keep incubating these eggs. I set 8 (4 BCM and 4 olive egger) ( ameraucana eggs with my BCM roosters over my black Ameraucana hen.) All 4 olive eggers hatched. Pipped on end of day 20 and hatched out on day 21. Only one of my BCM eggs hatched. I always told myself I would never assist a hatch but I'm convinced if I hadn't intervened, I would've ended up with no BCM chicks. After 20+ hours of watching his pipped egg with no zipping, I wrapped the egg in a warm, wet paper towel and gently "zipped" the egg myself. He was weak after pushing out. I was convinced he would die or I had made a horrible mistake by assisting, but the next morning he was up, running around peeping, healthy as could be. On day 23 I did an egg-topsy of my 3 remaining BCM eggs. They all had a tiny blood spot in them and beginning of a tiny embryo development. I'm hoping to improve my next hatch rate next time. I want more BCM hens! What causes early embryo death? Do you think it was the low temp the first 24 hrs of incubation? Or wrong humidity? The BCM chick I had to help out of the egg seemed big...like maybe the reason he couldn't zip is because he was too big to turn in the egg??? Are BCM eggs harder to incubate and hatch? I find it interesting that all 4 olive eggers popped out of their shells healthy and lively and only one BCM chick developed and then needed assistance out of the egg. Any thoughts or advice is appreciated! Pictured is my one little BCM chick.

Congrats on the hatch! Marans eggs are so thick. They have a difficult time hatching. Moisture doesn't escape if humidity is too high. I hatch at 30% to 35% humidity for Marans eggs. I have found when moisture is to high the chicks many times make it into aircell but not enough air. They either die before they make a air hole or are just too weak by the time they make the hole. They can also drown with smaller aircell and extra liquid in egg from humidity being high. With a little tweaking I am sure your Marans egg hatch rate will improve.