International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[snowbird]

For all that would like to answer . Dealing with the high tail Marans male and female are there any proven methods of lowering the tail angle that are not talked about .The only way I know is just cull anything that has a too high tail.

 

[Punkybrewster]

Thats the method i know of.
To breed it out unless you find chooks with low tails to purchase. But thats a gamble also.

I have some with high tails too. Not sure how to proceed with breeding. I have a while to figure it out and they arent near breeding age yet.

 

[Chooks man]

For all that would like to answer . Dealing with the high tail Marans male and female are there any proven methods of lowering the tail angle that are not talked about .The only way I know is just cull anything that has a too high tail.

very good question .
I have thing to do and I ll be free to go into it with detail .
before the culling occur ,we need to hatch .
before the hatch .we need to collect the eggs .
before we collect the eggs we need to pair the breeders .

NEVER PAIR 2 BREEDERS WITH A SAME FAULT . bad practice
BALANCING THE MATING IN THE BREEDING PENS IS THE KEY TO SOLVE ANY GENETIC DEFECT .

ORDER OF DOMINANCE of the chooks tail.= Rumples in Dominant to the full feathered tail .
Low tail is dominant to high tail .

I have to go .be back soon .
chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

let talk about the chooks tails genetic and what we are doing wrong as backyard .
this is an extract of a book I m working on .not refine yet . I will try to explain it .

First of all is the dominance affect . Rumples tail is the most dominant trait .
than is the low tail .
last one is a high tail .

Second thing we need to know is .they are 4 different parts to the tail;
1} Pygostyle { chooks butt } = this area support the other 3 { 2 .3 and 4} plus dictate the shape of the tail { open . close } and the base of the tail .

2} . caudal vertebra = attachment area of the last vertebrae and the Pygostyle ; this area is very important to us who want to breed a low tail .because this area dictate the attachment to the back . if this attachment is too short will causes the chooks butt to be at higher angle . if it is long enough than the chooks butt will be angled lower. Caudal Vertebra ha a strong relation with a length of the back . short back chooks are more likely to have a high tail . chooks with a long back are more likely to have a low tail . Study on fan tail pigeons has shown a strong relation beween the tail and the back . mostly autossomal genes .are found .

3} Parson s nose . we don t need to explain this area .every know ,oil gland .

4} Tail feathers = this area is very interesting to us . this area dictate ,a type of the feathers . the length of the feathers .

most studies has shown a lot autossomal genes involved . minimum sex linked .

for us us marans breeders .we need all 3 points { 1..2 and 4 }
we have to select and establish each trait separately ,than we merge than to breed a correct marans tail .

chooks has to be line bred for those trait .if the traits are not stable than the results never will be stable .

@kfelton0002 has fixed her marans high tail . she can comment on that her self when she have time .

mistake we are making as marans breeders is .we are trying to breed many trait @ ones and in few generation possible .

chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

When I started my marans project in 2013 . I did a most comment mistake .
I bought fertile eggs from all the peoples who sold marans that time .bought 1100 eggs , hatched over 800 .
when those chooks grow ,my friend and me we mixed our stock and start breeding them ,OH man what a mess ..
after years working with them we had to sale them and go separate ways .

this time when I restarted I did it differently . I bought marans from peoples who has marans with good trait .like dark eggs .large body type . good eyes color . only bought from these 2 breeders ,but I bought a lot of they young stock ,100 and 100 of fertile eggs .I even ask them to pair the chooks they way I want them .
now I have large number of marans all over 10 month with good trait om them ,they still have lot of faults too .parasitic white . light egg in some lines . bad combs .

now I will single mate every body I selected and hatch a super large number .more predictable progeny .some of my old breeders are proven breeders .I will start back crossing to see what inside .

hatching a large number from any pair will help to widen the genetic pool . will slow the inbreeding depression .

chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

Back crossing to the chooks with a great tail for few generation will help to fix the tail .
me I prefer sibling mating and hatching a large number to allow for a different genetic combination . even it is a same genetic but it is combine differently . so the phenotype expression will be different .

to breed from a high tail specimen Cock or hen ,we need to know how many generation back this individual is breed with the same trait high tail . if it is only 1 or 2 generation than it is workable .produce a lot cull .
but if where breed for a high tail trait for more than 2 generation than I will not work with them.

chooks man

 

[Punkybrewster]

Great information.
Thanks @Chooks man

 

[kfelton0002]

let talk about the chooks tails genetic and what we are doing wrong as backyard .
this is an extract of a book I m working on .not refine yet . I will try to explain it .

First of all is the dominance affect . Rumples tail is the most dominant trait .
than is the low tail .
last one is a high tail .

Second thing we need to know is .they are 4 different parts to the tail;
1} Pygostyle { chooks butt } = this area support the other 3 { 2 .3 and 4} plus dictate the shape of the tail { open . close } and the base of the tail .

2} . caudal vertebra = attachment area of the last vertebrae and the Pygostyle ; this area is very important to us who want to breed a low tail .because this area dictate the attachment to the back . if this attachment is too short will causes the chooks butt to be at higher angle . if it is long enough than the chooks butt will be angled lower. Caudal Vertebra ha a strong relation with a length of the back . short back chooks are more likely to have a high tail . chooks with a long back are more likely to have a low tail . Study on fan tail pigeons has shown a strong relation beween the tail and the back . mostly autossomal genes .are found .

3} Parson s nose . we don t need to explain this area .every know ,oil gland .

4} Tail feathers = this area is very interesting to us . this area dictate ,a type of the feathers . the length of the feathers .

most studies has shown a lot autossomal genes involved . minimum sex linked .

for us us marans breeders .we need all 3 points { 1..2 and 4 }
we have to select and establish each trait separately ,than we merge than to breed a correct marans tail .

chooks has to be line bred for those trait .if the traits are not stable than the results never will be stable .

@kfelton0002 has fixed her marans high tail . she can comment on that her self when she have time .

mistake we are making as marans breeders is .we are trying to breed many trait @ ones and in few generation possible .

chooks man

I have fixed the high tails for the most part. There are still a few cropping up with high tails but I am seeing an improvement in the grow outs. I fixed high tails using an unrelated male with a low tail, which was Duke. He now spends his retirement with his harem of layers free ranging in the yard. Pardon his feather condition, he is molting.

 

[marchick]

Chooksman, I am really liking this BC best so far. She has the best copper so far also. I am naming her Ginger. What do you think of her. I couldn't get a good picture of her. Actually the 2 in the first picture are the best 2 so far.

 

[RoosterML]

Ok so here are pictures of 4 cockerels I have from the 3rd breeder. Not happy with them and will all likely end up in freezer unless you see something that is worth keeping.
Only thing I like is smaller comb compared to my others. 4 months old. This breeder keeps Blue and Black Marans together.
#1 (Grey)


#2 (Blondie)


#3 (This to me is the best of the 4)


#4 (Runt)