Is Lemon the same as Buff?

[alohachickens]

I've searched through a bunch of threads trying to get an answer to this, and it just gets more confusing and muddled!

Most threads have to do with Lemon Cuckoo or Lemon Blue projects. But neither are answering the most basic question that I'm curious about. Is the color "LEMON" the same genetic color as "BUFF"?

Please help me out . . . in laymen's terms! I'll get confused if we start talking about Blue or Barring genes . . . let's just start at the ground floor. Is Lemon a color? Can there be a "solid" Lemon, or is that just a Buff?

Thanks!!!

 

[Arielle]

Nice question! I love the yellowy look that I see in pics, and it's definitely not the carmel barring I have in one rooster and it's not the orangy-gold of a BO rooster, not the pale caramel of the BO hens. I do love the pale yellow barring--so I"m curious too now! I thought it was different than buff.

 

[alohachickens]

I thought it was a different gene, too, but so far I can't seem to figure that out. Some threads on here are great for explaining the differences between other colors that look similar but breed differently because they are different genes. You know, how Blue looks kind of like Lavender, but they are different genes that work different ways. Or Chocolate vs. Dun. Both can look similar but are totally unrelated and breed in different ways.

Wondering if Lemon is totally different from Buff or if it's just different names for the same (genetic) color?

 

[Arielle]

I think I found a reasonable answer.

From Tadkerson: ( the photo he is referring to was posted above this post)


Lemon ( citroen, citron) is a color that can be obtained by different genetic makeups. I think the real lemon color appears when the birds yellow- otherwise they are cream colored or they are a diluted buff color. The birds in the previous post are barred and the barring is diluting the buff/red color in the birds.

You get a good lemon color in the hackles of lemon blues and in some males of other varieties.

 

[hdowden]

so basically its buff just diluted...at least that's what I'm getting

 

[mibirder]

It is a bit complicated in that certain varieties that are lemon colored are not created using Buff. For example, Lemon Blue Cochins are produced from brown reds - the gold version of Birchen - with Blue. A Buff x Blue creates a more orangish color and they lack the breast lacing.

Genetically several of the varieties of lemon colored birds are, in fact Buff with specific diluted genes added, but as noted aren't always just bred from Buffs.

 

[Arielle]

I think Tim Adkerson is saying two ways to get there. One is yellow, the other is diluted buff or cream.

THe lemon blues are citron based is my thought.

 

[mibirder]

Apologies for bringing in the genetic complexities.

Ive read in European sources what could amount to three methods, depending on specific varieties. First would be the dilution affect of sex linked gold such as with the Lemon Blue Cochin. Second would be a "dilution" by the ig gene (inhibitor of gold). Lastly would be a "dilution" or lighten of the Cb (champagne blond) gene that is common in many buff varieties. There may be others as well.

Which of the methods is dependent upon the genes in the parent stock and which breed of chicken involved. There would not see to be a single cause orate of genes common to all breeds and common to all situations so it is complex and can be confusing to explain in every case.

 

[mibirder]

BTW the only "solid" colored lemon I'm aware of (recognized) is the European bred Lemon Silkie but there could be others I'm not aware of.

 

[Arielle]

Apologies for bringing in the genetic complexities.

Ive read in European sources what could amount to three methods, depending on specific varieties. First would be the dilution affect of sex linked gold such as with the Lemon Blue Cochin. Second would be a "dilution" by the ig gene (inhibitor of gold). Lastly would be a "dilution" or lighten of the Cb (champagne blond) gene that is common in many buff varieties. There may be others as well.

Which of the methods is dependent upon the genes in the parent stock and which breed of chicken involved. There would not see to be a single cause orate of genes common to all breeds and common to all situations so it is complex and can be confusing to explain in every case.

Do the phenoptypes look very similar? I think of lemon as a lemon rind diluted.