Kinky Back treatable? What’s your expierience?

[Goosebaby]

I have a gander with a limp that’s progressed into lameness, though not full paralysis, he could still feel and move his legs but couldn’t stand or balance.
He was treated with Cipro and Amoxicillin for two weeks and recovered his ability to stand. Two weeks after finishing the Cipro and a week after finishing the amoxicillin he began to regress, since then he’s lost his ability to walk and stand and he has even less control over his legs compared to before. He has feeling in them and can move them, but the few times he tries to stand he pushes his feet forward, flails his wings, and falls backwards and to the side.
I spent pretty much all I had the first time around testing and treating him for other possibilities, so I have no ability to take him in for more testing now.

His symptoms to me seems like it matches Enterococcal spondylitis, bacterial kinky-back, though I can’t find much information here or elsewhere online about it to answer a few questions. Most of the possibilities that I could find here just turned out to be mareks, poisoning, or vitamin related.

So if anyone else has expierience with this or with something like this that you couldn’t pinpoint the exact cause of but was able to rule out mareks, poisoning, or a vitamin deficiency I’d be greatful if you shared your experience and answered a few questions, not just for me but also for anyone else who stumbles on this thread and might need this information too, because like I said, there isn’t a lot of useful information about this out there.
Also breed and species don’t matter, I want to know about it whatever the bird.

1: Was your bird able to recover from it /was it treatable in your expierience?

2: what overall condition was your bird at its worst? “For comparison.”:

3: How long did your bird’s recovery or decline take?

4: If you did manage your bird’s condition or cure your bird how did you do it? What methods, supplements, medications were or at least seemed helpful?


Symptoms of enterococcal spondylitis are...

Lameness
Hock sitting
Paralysis
Use of wings to pull themselves around
Walking or stumbling backwards
Often will hold legs forward

 

[Stipenvlerk]

Hi @Goosebaby, I'm sorry no one answered yet and I'm not helpful either. I'll give you a bump to the top...

 

[Goosebaby]

Hi @Goosebaby, I'm sorry no one answered yet and I'm not helpful either. I'll give you a bump to the top...

Thank you! Truthfully though I’m not surprised, this isn’t a common health issue and in chickens when they go lame like this it’s usually because of Mereks or lymphoid luekosis which is terminal so there isn’t much to compare this too considering mine is a goose so I didn’t expect many answers.

Right now he’s actually regained his ability to walk again so I’m hoping this time it sticks and he continues to recover.

 

[Stipenvlerk]

Thank you! Truthfully though I’m not surprised, this isn’t a common health issue and in chickens when they go lame like this it’s usually because of Mereks or lymphoid luekosis which is terminal so there isn’t much to compare this too considering mine is a goose so I didn’t expect many answers.

Right now he’s actually regained his ability to walk again so I’m hoping this time it sticks and he continues to recover.

Keep my fingers crossed for you!

 

[Isadora]

Right now he’s actually regained his ability to walk again so I’m hoping this time it sticks and he continues to recover.

Oh, good! I hope he's still doing well.

 

[Goosebaby]

I’m hoping so too, I’m just praying he doesn’t regress or catch something else while his immune system is recovering.

 

[FoodFreedomNow]

I haven't encountered the symptoms you described, either, but am sending good wishes for your gander's recovery!

 

[Goosebaby]

I haven't encountered the symptoms you described, either, but am sending good wishes for your gander's recovery!

Thank you!

 

[Goosebaby]

I’m going to update his information and what I’ve been doing for him here incase it’s of any use to anyone else. Keep in mind though that he hasn’t had and diagnostic testing to determine exactly what is going on with him, I’m just making educated guesses based on his symptoms and my own research, but in reality I know that means next to nothing.
My original post is here: https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...-with-progressive-limp.1453272/#post-24188508

March 2 Roxby “Roxbury” began limping on his left leg, I thought it was a sprain initially.

March 11 his symptoms became obviously neurological.

March 16 was finally looked at by a vet, at this point he hadn’t been able to walk in a few days, the left leg was worse than the right, and wasn’t willingly eating. Began treatment for lead poisoning and tube feeding. He developed symptoms of anemia also and was struggling to breath.

The anemia and breathing issues improved over a few days, he was given oxygen from a “Boost portable oxygen container.”

March 21 His tests for metals came back negative, he began cipro 1/2 of a 250 mg tablet every 12 hours for 2 weeks.

March 27 Roxby began Amoxcicillin as he hadn’t shown much improvement on the cipro, he continued on the cipro and Amox for their whole 2 weeks they were prescribed though.

April 3 Roxbury stood up! Over the next few days he continued to improve in leaps and bounds, in 3 days he went from being immobile to standing, walking, then running! He began eating small amounts on his own.

April 7 I noticed more subdued behavior.

April 16 Roxbury began regressing, his limp returned first in the left leg then the right and he began refusing to eat. I had to resume tube feeding. I started him on Doxycycline and Cephelexin.

April 23 started Roxbury on Cipro again, at this point his symptoms had worsened beyond what they were during his first bout with lameness, he had almost no control of his legs, none in the left, if he tried to stand he would flail and fall backwards, sometimes lying on his back, he couldn’t roll himself upright. At this point I was suspecting less that he had a tumor and more likely a spinal cord injury as his forward leg positions looked exactly as chickens do with kinky back. Example below:


His liver was struggling I could see at this point based on his droppings, they were thick, mucousy, with flecks of blood, his urin was yellow but his urates were still white. He had developed a slight prolapse also.
At this point I was preparing to send my sweet boy off to U.C.Davis for necropsy.

I had read an article describing how to perform a neurological examination of birds http://avianmedicine.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/17_nervous_system.pdf
and tested his responses to the pedal flexor reflex and the vent sphincter reflex.
His sphincter responded, he however didn’t flinch despite me pinching his feet.

Interestingly though when I decided to try a different method, I showed him the sheers I had used to clip his nail to obtain blood for his CBC and when I moved it towards each foot he ripped them both away and tucked them in under his feathers. So at this point I wasn’t sure if he could feel his feet but he could still definitely move them. I also was noticing he was occasionally doing this full body twitch at times, which according to this article https://www.flintrehab.com/signs-of-recovery-from-spinal-cord-injury/ could be spasticity, a sign of neural recovery.
This gave me pause and I decided I needed to give Roxbury every chance at recovery I can, especially after researching enterococcal spondylitis and finding next to nothing about the recovery of afflicted birds so I feel like I don’t just owe it to Roxby but to anyone else who could have something like this going on with their birds try.

I don’t know if he has enterococcal spondylitis or if it’s another bacteria like staph or strep that’s infected his spine but the theory I’m working on currently is Roxbury caught a bacterial infection in his spine, the inflammation is what caused him to go lame, his antibiotics either weren’t quite enough to kill off the bacteria in his spine or it did but he suffered a cyst that formed and then ruptured on or near his spinal cord.

April 26 gave him Fluconazole on the chance he had Candida attacking his liver making his droppings mucousy.

April 27 Gave Roxby Prednisone as suggested by my mom, on the chance it might help him, prednisone has been known to help spinal injuries by suppressing the inflamitory immune response that impacts the organs negatively. It turns out the “prednisone” she gave me was actually Dexamethasone a corticosteroid that more or less achieves the same result and is also sometimes prescribed for spinal trauma. “Wtf though mom?” Roxbury was given 1mg every day for 4 days.
His liver began to improve and his droppings began looking more normal and his prolapse went away.


May 4 Roxbury showed some improvement, though it was so subtle I didn’t know if it was improvement or worsening of his condition, he stopped falling over backwards, I didn’t know if this was him gaining control or being to weak to even try standing.

May 5 Roxby began using his wings in an attempt to support himself while trying to walk, I couldn’t say this was an improvement or not still.

May 7 Roxbury stood up!

May 8 Roxbury began walking! He began eating.

May 9 stopped tube feeding, he continues to improve.

May 10 Roxbury’s walking continues to improve. His droppings are normal.

https://www.instagram.com/p/COsy_6NBrhb/?igshid=sytya58fm4sp

My main concern now if he’ll continue to recover and not relapse. My second fear is if the steroid has suppressed his immune system and he could get Asper. Prednisone suppresses the immune system for up to 4 weeks, I couldn’t find any information on how long Dexamethasone suppresses the immune system, one source says its only an issue if taken for longer than 10 days in humans.

 

[Goosebaby]

Roxbury I think is showing the first signs of regressing again. It’s ecactly 11 days after regaining the ability to stand and walk like last time.