Lavender patterned Isabel duckwing barred - lavender brown cuckoo barred - project and genetic dis

[ChicKat]

I'll share pics when i get something to show. Wish I was further along but sure you feel the same way.

That is So great! I can't wait to see them. Definitely there is more than one path to get to the barred Isabel.
Glad that you brought up Silver and Gold -- because when I look at Mr. Poster Boy Isabella roo, I see a very light wing triangle. He's the guy in the PDF link in the 2nd post.

Because that wing triangle is so very white, I would wonder if he had sliver rather than gold on his S-Locus -- or perhaps he was split, since silver is dominant, then silver shows. He is gorgeous and his type is superb (from what I can tell)--- Often poultry judges focus on the type and the plumage is secondary to type (yet still important) and beginners focus on plumage and take years to understand 'type'.

The above guy has distinct pattern on the wings - the dark center bar which is diluted by two recessive lavender genes and the red shoulder patch also diluted. The saddle feathers and hackle feathers are very light platinum, and the tail is dark. Perfect to me would have more color in the wing triangle, hackles and saddles. However you just cannot really tell from photos because photos change the appearance of colors.


Now my guy, different angle, different light -- not fluffed and buffed for a show photo - and the pens a little wettish that day. His wing triangle is more colorful, more lavender, and that I like. His barring could use some clean up as well as his whole appearance, but he is a respectable example to me.

Here he is on a bit dryer day -- and his darker tail looks closer to (yet still not as saturated as) the poster-boy's.


Here he is again on top of the 6' fence -- he likes to survey the world from there. The wing triangle is not white like the poster boy.

Henk's chicken calculator has a definitive example of the effects, when you click on the "show effect of this Locus" on the right of each row of possible genetics you get an image of how that particular locus affects the chicken's appearance.

So your basis - for those who aren't familiar with what Moonshiner is doing, as diagrammed on the chicken calculator would be gold on the left, split silver/gold in the center and silver on the right. Although tiny, the sliver bird has lost the red shoulder.

Just for those familiar with Cream Legbars, IMO losing the red shoulder, loses the guarantee that the S-Locus of that paritcular rooster is gold-based. Since cream is a dilution of gold, gold would be required to be a cream legbar -- but that is a long ago discussion from a different era.





Above, an artist's rendition of Silver Crele and Gold Crele Leghorns with the chicks in the insert. See how the silver on S-Locus has removed the red shoulder. Of course, the real-life chickens are not identical to the artist concept -- but they really help me. Now, to just get an artist rendition of lavender patterned Isabel duckwing - barred DF!

 

[GabrielBane]

Following to reference! I have some Isabel English Orps and I've been wondering how exactly to follow the genetics. This is a great thread.

 

[ChicKat]

Here's the bit about 'luck'

Starting point Cream Legbar + Isabel. Since the CL females were already adult, producing their full sized eggs, it only required the Isabel male to reach breeding age. Here the two choices of male are that I had:



As with everything, everything everything you do in selection - there are trade offs. One has a better comb, one has a better tail, one has a better type, one has a better color. Of course I used them both. ;o) - However, the lighter one had a bit better feather quality, so he became the main breeder. The more saturated one boardered on a possible problem with the lavender gene -- lavender dilution can deteriorate feather quality.
Little saturated guy grew in nice feathers, but it was slower. He's also just a bit younger. The feather problem is referenced in the PDF link in post 2 in this thread.... Here's a close up of the shoulder of the guy in the first picture:

They weren't what I would call "permanent pin feathers" they just grew in slower. His pretty colors show up in this photo too -- the lower left of the picture are his secondaries and you can see the combination of lavender from what would be black on a brown leghorn or wild type and the pale peachy color that would be brownish-red or 'gold' on a brown leghorn.

The Cream Legbar females I have are VERY consistent ... sometimes I need to rely on leg bands to tell them apart without careful study. (That 'cookie-cutter' effect is a good thing in a flock BTW).



What looks orange on the hen in front is aactually a bar of sunlight - making it look like she has an orange patch....she doesn't

Here are the results of the first hatch, and I know exactly which chicken produced the egg that produced the chick - so I know exact parentage of each of these:


In the upper left is the female. Dark and continuous dorsal stripe and bright chipmunk stripes that are very distinct. The right most and lower chickens are males. The right most because there is a break in his dorsal stripe at the back of his head and the darker one because he and his little buddy have more diffused stripes over their abdomen. The female on the left is the one that started laying ultra early and died when the first egg was produced. The boys are still out in the pens and with Isabel females right now.

The darker chick at not quite 7 months grew to look like this today:





He has more distinct barring than his half-brother from the same hatch, still has a nice bar on the wing, and his wing triangle is more barred. The one not through chain link are his half-brother - the chick on the far right of the picture grew to be the guy in the following pictures:



Here is the same exact roo that is in an earlier post in this thread post 3.
Both these were fathered by the less saturated roo and two different mothers.

The other guy out there had a twin that looked so much the same they were interchangeable -- and his eggs are in the incubator right now -- Since the two had idental parents and looked the same - but this one had a bit better type he is the one that I kept, but he has yet to father any chicks.








So, it was lucky to get 4 males that could be bred back to Isabel females. What I want from the pairing is a female with two lavender genes and a barring gene. If she is crestless and has the blue egg gene AND left behind the cream gene -- she is my end product. Omitting the crest and egg genes, the chicken calculator says I have a 1 in 8 chance of getting such a chick.





Does this lavender chick have a barring gene? It only had one barred parent, the male, and that male only has one barring gene. If he passed it to his daughter - (if it is a girl which I think it is) then her combination of lavender and barring is the end point. If it is a male - that is still O.K. because a single barred lavender male is just one generation away from the end point of lavender patterned Isabel duckwing DF.
in a later post, I will show why it is still too soon to tell.
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Just to summarize, the males shown here at 7 months for the older two and hatched about 3-weeks later for the younger one - are from two different fathers. They have 1 lavender gene, 1 barring gene and are 1/2 Leghorn and 1/2 Legbar. (Legbar mothers). They also have 1 cresting gene and 1 cream gene along with 1 blue-egg laying gene.

 

[ChicKat]

Following to reference! I have some Isabel English Orps and I've been wondering how exactly to follow the genetics. This is a great thread.

Feel free to post some photos -- and any info that you would care to share about your experiences with Isabel!

 

[ChicKat]

Years ago when I first saw lavender barred, I thought it was beautiful (that was before I even knew of Isabel) - The post had either seen it somewhere or it had appeared in their flock and they were just saying 'what's this?'.

Here's why it is too soon to tell if that little chick at the end of post #23 is barred. Last year with my original dozen Isabel chicks, one was growing out like this:



This one, I thought for sure came to me barred (the brown on the feathers is poop actually - the chicks had been crawling all over each other in a dirty brooder that day) -- A few weeks later she looked like this

As you can see -- all signs of the barring that the baby feathers had have disappeared.

 

[Kiki]

Years ago when I first saw lavender barred, I thought it was beautiful (that was before I even knew of Isabel) - The post had either seen it somewhere or it had appeared in their flock and they were just saying 'what's this?'.

Here's why it is too soon to tell if that little chick at the end of post #23 is barred. Last year with my original dozen Isabel chicks, one was growing out like this:



This one, I thought for sure came to me barred (the brown on the feathers is poop actually - the chicks had been crawling all over each other in a dirty brooder that day) -- A few weeks later she looked like this

As you can see -- all signs of the barring that the baby feathers had have disappeared.

I am in love with this project.
Following..I need to read everything again.
Thanks for the wonderful learning session!!

 

[Kiki]

I want to be your first customer!! lol
I love this last chick you posted...#25

 

[ChicKat]

This is what that 'Betty Boop' curl looks like on a lavender chick:


Sorry for the bad photos - it's hard to hold and photo and you kn ow that they won't stand still at all.
Here is a brown version of what I am calling Betty Boo' spit curls. You might have to right click and enlarge or open the lavender version in a new window.


Oh and if anyone is not familiar with her, here's Betty Boop.

Really hard to see the stray color on the lavenders, but matching to the brown pattern helps. So this nice little chick will go to a new home with the brown ones from this hatch.

 

[ChicKat]

I want to be your first customer!! lol
I love this last chick you posted...#25

Thanks! She is in 'time out' right now -- I should get a photo of her today as an adult - (red comb and wattles instead or pullet pink)

ETA - here she is today out in the pens:



If you look carefully at her tail, you can see no barring. Here's a pullet that has only 1 lavender gene and she also has no barring:

 

[Kiki]

Thanks! She is in 'time out' right now -- I should get a photo of her today as an adult - (red comb and wattles instead or pullet pink)

ETA - here she is today out in the pens:


I JUST LOVE THIS COLOR!!!!


If you look carefully at her tail, you can see no barring. Here's a pullet that has only 1 lavender gene and she also has no barring:
THIS GIRL REMINDS ME OF ME WELSUMMERS! PRETTY TOO.