Likely Marek's disease, what works for care/treatment

[Wyorp Rock]

We just received the necropsy results back on Thelma and they were consistent with Marek's disease despite the fact that she was vaccinated. Our whole flock is vaccinated as well. I guess now I get the lovely distinction of being a Marek's flock despite the fact that we did everything we could to prevent it by vaccinating and keeping a closed flock. I'm worried about all the chicks we have that have been in contact with her. We removed her as soon as she showed any symptoms but I think it would be too late at that point. I'm also worried about moving the younger ones outside with our adults now too since I don't want to expose them to anything. I'm assuming that is a futile worry at this point though since they are likely exposed as well. It wasn't a surprising result based on the way her symptoms but progressed but still upsetting and somewhat shocking since everyone is vaccinated.

I'm glad you were able to get confirmation so you are sure what's going on.

Unfortunately the vaccine does not prevent infection from the virus, it can help prevent the formation of tumors (Cutaneous Form Marek's), but Marek's presents in different ways, there's many strains and of course it's in four forms - Cutaneous, Ocular, Visceral and Neural.

Many folks do have positive Marek's flocks and over time have learned to find a balance in managing the disease. So not all hope is lost.

I'll tag in @microchick to give you some pointers and encouragement.

 

[Eggcessive]

Did they actually do a Mareks test on feather shafts or tumor tissue, or did the vet think it looked like Mareks? Did they find tumors in her organs or on her sciatic nerves? If you can post the necropsy results for us to read and learn, that would be great. Sorry that they seem to think it was Mareks.

 

[microchick]

@kerthomp I am so sorry you lost your hen. When all is said and done it is the last gift of love that we can give to a beloved pet to let them fly free with grace and dignity.

I am also so sorry to hear about your diagnosis. You are not alone. I have been dealing with Marek's in my flock for almost 6 years now. My birds in my original flock were not vaccinated but were bred for resistance. Thing is there are different strains of Marek's disease and even if your birds were vaccinated the cold hard truth is were they vaccinated for the strain of Marek's that you are dealing with?

Unfortunately vaccines are not 100%. They all have a percentage of fail rate that we have to deal with both in animals and in humans. So the Marek's may have been on your property without you even knowing it. That is what happened to me even though it had been 7 years since chickens had been kept on our farm. Marek's is airborne. You cannot stop it from coming onto your property so please do not beat yourself up because of this happening. It was luck of the draw pure and simple... or bad luck of the draw whichever way you want to look at it.

Where to from here? There is life after Marek's disease. First off, all of your birds are exposed. Chicks, juveniles, adults, they are all carriers. I know. It sux. It's even worse that you will probably see more deaths before it stops and goes away but even when it stops, it's still there.

What you have to do now is make some plans for the future. The birds that survive your first flare of the disease will be resistant. Not immune, just resistant to developing open symptoms of the disease.

Marek's is stress sensitive. Ever had a cold sore right before a special day? Test? Holiday? The human herpes virus is everywhere and some people are more resistant to it than others and never get an outbreak while others seem to be blessed with a coldsore at the least bit of stress in their lives.

Marek's is a herpes infection and will act the same way in chickens only in chickens the herpes virus causes the Ocular Marek's, the Neurological Marek's and the Visceral Marek's.

I was lucky, if you want to call it that. I had all three pop up in my flock. The Veterinary doctor that I talked to at the University of Missouri at Columbia told me that what you need to look for are birds that survive 3 or more years after the initial exposure and infection. These birds are resistant and the ones that you want to breed from.

It's curious that your birds were vaccinated but developed symptoms. Have you talked to your local home extension poultry expert? It might be worth a call to them to find out what strains of Marek's is in your area. I have brought vaccinated birds into my flock along with Egyptian Fayoumis and so far I haven't lost any of these birds to MD. I have second generations of EFs and third generations of Old English Game Bantams that are so far healthy.

I also got eggs from an Amish neighbor whose flock is healthy and hatched them. While I have lost a few birds under MD suspicious symptoms, the degree of loss is much lower than it was with my unvaccinated Buff Orpingtons and Welsummers which leads me to suspect that local birds have built up a natural resistance to the virus that is present in the area.

So you are asking yourself what to do with the chicks and birds you have now. All I can tell you that in my humble opinion, time will tell.

There is some line of thought that vaccinating even after the 24 hour window of opportunity after hatching does reduce the loss to MD. There is also the line of thought that says that vaccinating just creates different and more resistant strains of MD. I know what works for me and that is brining in vaccinated birds into my flock. Without doing that and without bringing in EFs and local birds, I would be out of a flock right now.

Right now the longer you can keep your chicks away from your adult birds the better it goes for them. Usually Marek's symptoms can occur after the age of 9 weeks. I've had them occur at 8 weeks in one bird that I lost to scissor paralysis in both legs. At this point be vigilant.

I agree with recommendations of vitamins. Calf Mana has been recommended to me. I use Rooster Booster pro biotics and vitamins with my flock.

And, as hard as it is to do know when it is time to let your sick bird's spirit fly free. They will tell you. It's heart breaking. I know, trust me. I lost 2/3rds of my flock before it stopped but it will stop.

There is always somebody here at BYC who will be able to help you through the rough times. There are more here who are wearing the same shoes that you are and fighting this disease in their flocks. Just hang on is my best advice and don't lose hope.

Thank you for the tag @Wyorp Rock and @kerthomp if you ever need to feel free to PM me.

 

[Tsnn]

We just received the necropsy results back on Thelma and they were consistent with Marek's disease despite the fact that she was vaccinated. Our whole flock is vaccinated as well. I guess now I get the lovely distinction of being a Marek's flock despite the fact that we did everything we could to prevent it by vaccinating and keeping a closed flock. I'm worried about all the chicks we have that have been in contact with her. We removed her as soon as she showed any symptoms but I think it would be too late at that point. I'm also worried about moving the younger ones outside with our adults now too since I don't want to expose them to anything. I'm assuming that is a futile worry at this point though since they are likely exposed as well. It wasn't a surprising result based on the way her symptoms but progressed but still upsetting and somewhat shocking since everyone is vaccinated.

Thank you for posting and I am truly saddened for your loss as I am going through this myself. I don’t even have a flock I just have 1 silkie house chicken that has been the best buddy

 

[microchick]

I'm so sorry the necropsy came back the way it did.

All you can do now is wait and watch. You have to remember that vaccines are not 100%. The current fight with Covid is a prime example of how this works.

The fact that your flock is vaccinated will give them a degree of protection against the disease. This means you may not lose as many birds as a flock that isn't vaccinated at all. But yes, you do know now that your flock are carriers so until you see how things are going to go from this point on keep the flock closed.

There is a study out there that speculates that chicks from vaccinated parents will inherit a degree of resistance from the hen. Is this true? I have second and third generation chicks from my Amish Barnyard mixes, Fayoumis (genetic resistance) and OEGB bantams (vaccinated) and so far so good so I'm hoping that is true.

Hopefully this will not get any worse for you. I sincerely hope it doesn't. Just remember you are not alone.