Opinions: Medicated Chick Feed and Corid

[Ridgerunner]

Can a chick develop immunity to Coccidia when there is no Coccidia in their environment?

There are several different strains of the protozoa that causes Coccidiosis. Each strain attacks a specific part of their digestive system. Immunity to one of those strains does not give immunity to any of the other strains. For them to develop immunity to one of those strains they need to be exposed to that strain for around 2 weeks.

Is it possible to have an environment that does not have Coccidia?

Yes. It is also possible to have more than one strain.

I don't use medicated feed but watch the wood shaving bedding for reddish spots. It is rare for there to be signs of bloody poop for the first month but if any is noticed they get Corid in their water.

They do not always have bloody poops when they have Coccidiosis. Some strains are more virulent than other strains. Some of that depends on which part of their digestive system they attack. Do not rely on bloody stools to tell you that they have Coccidiosis. If they are lethargic, just standing around fluffed up and looking miserable assume they have Coccidiosis and start treatment. Even if you are wrong and Coccidiosis is not the problem treating them will not hurt them.

The problem is not when they have some of those protozoa in their system, it is when the numbers get out of hand. They need some to develop immunity to that strain. Those protozoa thrive in wet soil with poop in it and in dirty water. If you can give them clean water and keep their environment pretty dry Coccidiosis is usually not a problem but some of the stronger strains can still cause problems.

 

[SourRoses]

In my limited experience, I notice bloody stool before they get lethargic and puff up if (and only if() it is nice clean pine shavings (Mallard Creek brand). To me, the red color seems to pop out in the sea of off-white shavings. It is more difficult with cedar shavings that have dark brown bits.

Some of the strains don't cause blood in the poo at all.

I use pine shavings in the brooder and sand in the coops, and check poo often, but there's never been signs of blood.
Due to OCD I keep things scrubbed and sanitize between every batch of chicks. But they still get it, I think from the well water.

 

[3KillerBs]

Due to OCD I keep things scrubbed and sanitize between every batch of chicks. But they still get it, I think from the well water.

I think that environment matters a lot.

I'm the opposite in that I make no attempt to maintain a sterile environment, use the same bedding for multiple batches of chicks (changing out only the most soiled area near the feeders and brooder plate), and deliberately start introducing small amounts of bedding from the adult's coop and run from their second week and haven't had a problem so far.

While I do use a bag of medicated chick starter until it runs out, I suspect that my success is largely due to my exceedingly-well-drained soil and a low prevalence in my local environment rather than any particular quality of my management system.

 

[Ridgerunner]

In my limited experience, I notice bloody stool before they get lethargic and puff up if (and only if) it is nice clean pine shavings (Mallard Creek brand).

Whether there is blood or not probably depends on which strain you have more than anything else.

If they live in soil and dust can be blown about, then can the Cooties be carried around in the air? If so, then GOOD. I get to stop trying to clean stuff.

The protozoa lives in the soil and can live in dirty water. I don't think they can be carried in the air but they can be tracked on feet from one spot to another. If a chicken has it then they can be spread by their poop. If a certain strain is in your environment it is probably well spread.

I'll copy something I wrote several years back. It is a long read but it might help you understand more about Coccidiosis and medicated feed.


First you need to know what the "medicated" is in the medicated feed. It should be on the label. Usually it is Amprolium, Amprol, some such product, but until you read the label, you really don't know. Most "medicated' feed from major brands for chicks that will be layers uses Amprolium, but there are a few out there mostly for broilers, that use other medicines. I'll assume yours is an Amprolium product, but if it is not, then realize everything I say about it may not apply. And it is possible that the "medicated" is Amprolium AND something else.

Amprolium is not an antibiotic. It does not kill anything. It inhibits the protozoa that cause coccidiosis (often called Cocci on this forum) from multiplying in the chicken's system. It does not prevent the protozoa from multiplying; it just slows that multiplication down. There are several different strains of protozoa that can cause Cocci, some more severe than others. Chickens can develop immunity to a specific strain of the protozoa, but that does not give them immunity to all protozoa that cause Cocci.

It is not a big deal for the chicken’s intestines to contain some of the protozoa that cause Cocci. The problem comes in when the number of those protozoa gets huge. The protozoa can multiply in the chicken’s intestines but also in wet manure. For them to reproduce they need some moisture. Slightly damp isn't an issue, soaking wet is. Different protozoa strains have different strengths, but for almost all cases, if you keep the brooder dry, you will not have a problem.

To develop immunity to a specific strain, that protozoa needs to be in the chicks intestines for two or three weeks. The normal sequence is that a chick has the protozoa. It poops and some of the cysts that develop the protozoa come out in the poop. If the poop is slightly damp, those cysts develop and will then develop in the chick's intestines when the chicks eat that poop. This cycle needs go on for a few weeks so all chicks are exposed and they are exposed long enough to develop immunity. A couple of important points here. You do need to watch them to see if they are getting sick. And the key is to keep the brooder dry yet allow some of the poop to stay damp. Not soaking wet, just barely damp. Wet poop can lead to serious problems.

What sometimes happens is that people keep chicks in a brooder and feed them medicated feed while they are in the brooder. Those chicks are never exposed to the Cocci protozoa that lives in the dirt in their run, so they never develop the immunity to it. Then, they are switched to non-medicated feed and put on the ground where they are for the first time exposed to the protozoa. They do not have immunity, they do not have the protection of the medicated feed, so they get sick. Feeding medicated feed while in the brooder was a complete waste.

I do not feed medicated feed. I keep the brooder dry to not allow the protozoa to breed uncontrollably. The third day that they are in the brooder, I take a scoop of dirt from the run and feed it to them so I can introduce the protozoa and they can develop the immunity they need to the strain they need to develop an immunity to. Since I keep my brooder extremely dry and the water clean the protozoa can't reproduce so every three days I give them more dirt from the run so they get more protozoa and can develop immunity. I don't lose chicks to Cocci when they hit the ground.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding medicated feed to chicks, whether the protozoa are present or not. It will not hurt them. They can still develop the immunity they need. But unless the protozoa are present, it also does no good.

If you get your chicks vaccinated for Cocci, do not feed medicated feed. It can negate the vaccinations.

 

[brickmom68]

Whether there is blood or not probably depends on which strain you have more than anything else.


The protozoa lives in the soil and can live in dirty water. I don't think they can be carried in the air but they can be tracked on feet from one spot to another. If a chicken has it then they can be spread by their poop. If a certain strain is in your environment it is probably well spread.

I'll copy something I wrote several years back. It is a long read but it might help you understand more about Coccidiosis and medicated feed.


First you need to know what the "medicated" is in the medicated feed. It should be on the label. Usually it is Amprolium, Amprol, some such product, but until you read the label, you really don't know. Most "medicated' feed from major brands for chicks that will be layers uses Amprolium, but there are a few out there mostly for broilers, that use other medicines. I'll assume yours is an Amprolium product, but if it is not, then realize everything I say about it may not apply. And it is possible that the "medicated" is Amprolium AND something else.

Amprolium is not an antibiotic. It does not kill anything. It inhibits the protozoa that cause coccidiosis (often called Cocci on this forum) from multiplying in the chicken's system. It does not prevent the protozoa from multiplying; it just slows that multiplication down. There are several different strains of protozoa that can cause Cocci, some more severe than others. Chickens can develop immunity to a specific strain of the protozoa, but that does not give them immunity to all protozoa that cause Cocci.

It is not a big deal for the chicken’s intestines to contain some of the protozoa that cause Cocci. The problem comes in when the number of those protozoa gets huge. The protozoa can multiply in the chicken’s intestines but also in wet manure. For them to reproduce they need some moisture. Slightly damp isn't an issue, soaking wet is. Different protozoa strains have different strengths, but for almost all cases, if you keep the brooder dry, you will not have a problem.

To develop immunity to a specific strain, that protozoa needs to be in the chicks intestines for two or three weeks. The normal sequence is that a chick has the protozoa. It poops and some of the cysts that develop the protozoa come out in the poop. If the poop is slightly damp, those cysts develop and will then develop in the chick's intestines when the chicks eat that poop. This cycle needs go on for a few weeks so all chicks are exposed and they are exposed long enough to develop immunity. A couple of important points here. You do need to watch them to see if they are getting sick. And the key is to keep the brooder dry yet allow some of the poop to stay damp. Not soaking wet, just barely damp. Wet poop can lead to serious problems.

What sometimes happens is that people keep chicks in a brooder and feed them medicated feed while they are in the brooder. Those chicks are never exposed to the Cocci protozoa that lives in the dirt in their run, so they never develop the immunity to it. Then, they are switched to non-medicated feed and put on the ground where they are for the first time exposed to the protozoa. They do not have immunity, they do not have the protection of the medicated feed, so they get sick. Feeding medicated feed while in the brooder was a complete waste.

I do not feed medicated feed. I keep the brooder dry to not allow the protozoa to breed uncontrollably. The third day that they are in the brooder, I take a scoop of dirt from the run and feed it to them so I can introduce the protozoa and they can develop the immunity they need to the strain they need to develop an immunity to. Since I keep my brooder extremely dry and the water clean the protozoa can't reproduce so every three days I give them more dirt from the run so they get more protozoa and can develop immunity. I don't lose chicks to Cocci when they hit the ground.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding medicated feed to chicks, whether the protozoa are present or not. It will not hurt them. They can still develop the immunity they need. But unless the protozoa are present, it also does no good.

If you get your chicks vaccinated for Cocci, do not feed medicated feed. It can negate the vaccinations.

OMG…this is an excellent resource!! I do have a question about timing though. I got some chicks, but not as many as I originally planned, so I was going to try to get more at the end of the week. Since they would be close in age, I was going to place them in the same brooder. If I am able to get more chicks I assume I should wait to introduce the soil from their run until I m certain the second group is at least 3 days old and thriving…correct?

 

[rosemarythyme]

If I am able to get more chicks I assume I should wait to introduce the soil from their run until I m certain the second group is at least 3 days old and thriving…correct?

Microbes or pathogens in the soil isn't an issue as far as 3 days making a difference, but younger chicks are more inclined to put things in their mouth that they shouldn't. So potentially you may find the youngest ones eating soil... or you might not. As long as they don't gorge on it it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Ridgerunner]

If I am able to get more chicks I assume I should wait to introduce the soil from their run until I m certain the second group is at least 3 days old and thriving…correct?

One of the first things a broody hen does is to take her chicks where they can peck at the ground. This gets grit in their system, gets them probiotics from the flock, and starts them on developing flock immunities, including Coccidiosis if it is present. I agree with Rosemary, feeding them dirt in the first days doesn't matter in that respect.

The reason I wait two or three days is that they are just getting settled and learning where their food is. There is nothing magical about any specific number of days. You could wait a week if you want to.

 

[genxjanette]

Whether there is blood or not probably depends on which strain you have more than anything else.


The protozoa lives in the soil and can live in dirty water. I don't think they can be carried in the air but they can be tracked on feet from one spot to another. If a chicken has it then they can be spread by their poop. If a certain strain is in your environment it is probably well spread.

I'll copy something I wrote several years back. It is a long read but it might help you understand more about Coccidiosis and medicated feed.


First you need to know what the "medicated" is in the medicated feed. It should be on the label. Usually it is Amprolium, Amprol, some such product, but until you read the label, you really don't know. Most "medicated' feed from major brands for chicks that will be layers uses Amprolium, but there are a few out there mostly for broilers, that use other medicines. I'll assume yours is an Amprolium product, but if it is not, then realize everything I say about it may not apply. And it is possible that the "medicated" is Amprolium AND something else.

Amprolium is not an antibiotic. It does not kill anything. It inhibits the protozoa that cause coccidiosis (often called Cocci on this forum) from multiplying in the chicken's system. It does not prevent the protozoa from multiplying; it just slows that multiplication down. There are several different strains of protozoa that can cause Cocci, some more severe than others. Chickens can develop immunity to a specific strain of the protozoa, but that does not give them immunity to all protozoa that cause Cocci.

It is not a big deal for the chicken’s intestines to contain some of the protozoa that cause Cocci. The problem comes in when the number of those protozoa gets huge. The protozoa can multiply in the chicken’s intestines but also in wet manure. For them to reproduce they need some moisture. Slightly damp isn't an issue, soaking wet is. Different protozoa strains have different strengths, but for almost all cases, if you keep the brooder dry, you will not have a problem.

To develop immunity to a specific strain, that protozoa needs to be in the chicks intestines for two or three weeks. The normal sequence is that a chick has the protozoa. It poops and some of the cysts that develop the protozoa come out in the poop. If the poop is slightly damp, those cysts develop and will then develop in the chick's intestines when the chicks eat that poop. This cycle needs go on for a few weeks so all chicks are exposed and they are exposed long enough to develop immunity. A couple of important points here. You do need to watch them to see if they are getting sick. And the key is to keep the brooder dry yet allow some of the poop to stay damp. Not soaking wet, just barely damp. Wet poop can lead to serious problems.

What sometimes happens is that people keep chicks in a brooder and feed them medicated feed while they are in the brooder. Those chicks are never exposed to the Cocci protozoa that lives in the dirt in their run, so they never develop the immunity to it. Then, they are switched to non-medicated feed and put on the ground where they are for the first time exposed to the protozoa. They do not have immunity, they do not have the protection of the medicated feed, so they get sick. Feeding medicated feed while in the brooder was a complete waste.

I do not feed medicated feed. I keep the brooder dry to not allow the protozoa to breed uncontrollably. The third day that they are in the brooder, I take a scoop of dirt from the run and feed it to them so I can introduce the protozoa and they can develop the immunity they need to the strain they need to develop an immunity to. Since I keep my brooder extremely dry and the water clean the protozoa can't reproduce so every three days I give them more dirt from the run so they get more protozoa and can develop immunity. I don't lose chicks to Cocci when they hit the ground.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding medicated feed to chicks, whether the protozoa are present or not. It will not hurt them. They can still develop the immunity they need. But unless the protozoa are present, it also does no good.

If you get your chicks vaccinated for Cocci, do not feed medicated feed. It can negate the vaccinations.

I’ve been feeding my chicks medicated feed and bringing them dirt and dandelions from the yard. How long should I keep that up before I switch them to a non medicated chick starter? And when I do switch them to a non medicated chick started, I add anything to their water?

 

[Ridgerunner]

It takes two to three weeks for them to develop the immunity they need. I never feed medicated feed since in my situation as long as I keep the brooder dry I find it is not necessary. But it will not hurt to feed it.

I'd feed it for three weeks minimum. Then switch after that bag of medicated feed was used up. No need to waste it, us it up.

 

[rosemarythyme]

I’ve been feeding my chicks medicated feed and bringing them dirt and dandelions from the yard. How long should I keep that up before I switch them to a non medicated chick starter?

If you want to be overly cautious, wait until they're outside for about 2-3 weeks or so, then switch off medicated feed. Although bringing in outside dirt will help, this will ensure they still have additional protection while they roam the entirety of their enclosure.

And when I do switch them to a non medicated chick started, I add anything to their water?

No need to add anything to water unless there's a specific issue you're treating for/dealing with.