Oriental Gamefowl Thread!

[SD_Paulo]

Well, once again you show you can't tell one bird from another. One of the "Shamo" crosses you posted has not one drop of shamo blood in it... Books and hearsay can only tell you so much. Only experience with the birds in your hand, and I don't mean over a few months, is what allows you to understand, if you can truly accept that you don't already have all the answers.

Ahhh Mr. Cuda,

I never presumed to have all the answers or that what, I was saying was law. I was just sharing, as I had mentioned, what I have gathered. To your point, and I do not disagree, experience surely is a great teacher. But so is education, research, interviews and hands-on experiences especially in the presence of more knowledgeable people.

To play devils advocate to your "time and experience" theory. Lets assume one only knew and was taught that "Boles Asils" where true Asils. When this person saw a pure Asil for the first time, what do you think he might say? He might say or think, "That’s not an Asil!"

My point is, that experience by itself is still limiting, as is reading books but by combining the two, and speaking and visiting more knowledgeable people and their birds a great deal of information can be a gathered in short order.

But as I mentioned at the beginning of my post I am not an expert! I have never been to Japan (but I have spoken and communicated with those that have), I never saw the original birds imported by Mr. Ashby (only current photos of those versions), ect. I was merely sharing information. It was definitely open to discussion and debate.

 

[CUDA]

Yes, but when newbies share misinformation to other newbies, and the wrong information gets out there as "fact". Next thing you know, many people are mislead, and many are too stubborn to realize maybe what they were told might have been wrong. What really bothers me is you seem to be one of those types, and then you use pics of MY fowl in your efforts to "educate" others, when you don't even know what breed it is, and claim it's something it isn't. I don't claim to be any kind of expert either, but when I discuss something I feel is fact, it is because of both research, and first hand experience. I have held more asils in my hand, and put them on the ground on my yard then most people have even seen true asils, even though I haven't been into fowl as long as some people. If I want to learn more about a specific breed that I work with, I go to people like Saladin who I know has a lifetime of experience with the breed, not just a couple of months, and a keyboard warrior. I just hate to see people sucked in by others that act like what they say is the gospel when they can't even tell the difference between an asil or a shamo, or even an asil and a malay... When I see that, I feel obligated to say something so inexperienced folk don't think the poor information is fact.

 

[fowlsessed]

I sensed a little too much rashness and contempt in the reply, though. That could be very humiliating, Cuda. Maybe you could have posted a more generalized "warning'/correction and sent Paulo a PM. Anyhow, I'm sure you didn't mean anything negative by it.

 

[chickletteSarge]

Yes, but when newbies share misinformation to other newbies, and the wrong information gets out there as "fact". Next thing you know, many people are mislead, and many are too stubborn to realize maybe what they were told might have been wrong. What really bothers me is you seem to be one of those types, and then you use pics of MY fowl in your efforts to "educate" others, when you don't even know what breed it is, and claim it's something it isn't. I don't claim to be any kind of expert either, but when I discuss something I feel is fact, it is because of both research, and first hand experience. I have held more asils in my hand, and put them on the ground on my yard then most people have even seen true asils, even though I haven't been into fowl as long as some people. If I want to learn more about a specific breed that I work with, I go to people like Saladin who I know has a lifetime of experience with the breed, not just a couple of months, and a keyboard warrior. I just hate to see people sucked in by others that act like what they say is the gospel when they can't even tell the difference between an asil or a shamo, or even an asil and a malay... When I see that, I feel obligated to say something so inexperienced folk don't think the poor information is fact.

Cuda, i respect everyones views here in this thread. wether or not they are fact or not... yes i would like to raise true pure bred fowl! but if i get a grade of mixed breeds if i like the look of it. i know there are some ppl out there that dont know *** they really have... thats why im glad i have ppl like you and others that truly know what they have! the drawings SD posted are very interesting to me! as are the others posted months ago!
your link to your webpage seems to be down btw... i went there months ago but havent been able to find it since! is it still up?

 

[CUDA]

Maybe I come across harshly, but when I do, it's because I am passionate about what I believe in, and hate seeing it disrespected. I just get tired of seeing the same tired cycles over and over again I guess. People that I call out personally have been given the chance via pm before, but fall into that category of said people that I mentioned earlier, unfortunately. It would be no different, in my opinion, if I started raising a breed of chicken I've never raised before, had it a couple of months, talked to a few people that have had them for a while, read some books, or researched them online, then went online preaching how this or that is correct every chance I got to anyone who would listen. To me, that's just poor behavior plain and simple. Many oriental breeds have been distorted so badly from things like this, you find shamo that look like malays now (and vice versa just as long as they are massively huge), and asils that aren't game, and so on, and so on... If my bird hadn't been misrepresented in the first place, I probably never would have said a word about it, because I know it will fall on deaf ears anyway.

Sarge, my website has never been down to my knowledge.

 

[saladin]

cuda wrote: Many oriental breeds have been distorted so badly from things like this, you find shamo that look like malays now (and vice versa just as long as they are massively huge), and asils that aren't game, and so on, and so on...

Folks you need to really pay attention to this statement. It is full of more truth than you can image. Do I cross fowl? Sure I do, and I tell it when I do. Do I cross Gamefowl and non-Gamefowl? Yes I have BUT only for grading into the non-Gamefowl side. (For example, to make the Black Cubalaya I bred a straight White Cubalaya to a Black Shamo hen and the graded back to the Cubalaya side).

It is when cross are made between Gamefowl and non-Gamefowl and graded back to the Gamefowl side that you get into trouble.

Or if you think the difference between a Malay and a Shamo is just the comb!

There are alot of folks out there that don't care about the particular breed they are working with. They just want to show the Biggest Chicken in the Show. What a joke!!!

 

[chickletteSarge]

Sarge, my website has never been down to my knowledge.

it would work after i complain! lol hey i got some Qs about your first 3 asil on your page... love the colors and tail length on the first 2 how big is that microdot? he looks HUGE!!!

 

[SD_Paulo]

@ Cuda,

I fail to see the disrespect? My post was an attempt to share information I have gathered from others, with others. I don’t recall stating what I posted was GOSPEL, nor what was posted was set in STONE. Furthermore, I also believe I made it very clear that I was not an expert, specifically made reference to “my opinion” and I values Saladins line of Shamo.

I am lucky to be friends with people that are far more experienced and knowledgeable with their respected breeds whether Thai, Shamo, Ganoi or Asil and have been kind enough to share with me some of their knowledge. I don’t presume to be as knowledgeable as they are, I listen when they speak and illicit questions. It’s been a steep learning curve but I am far more knowledgeable because of their generosity, time and energy than I was even yesterday. That’s how learning works in my book. So, if it takes you a life time to learn the basics of a skill, trait or job I would say you’re not learning quick enough. Sorry for being blunt!

Besides, the ONE photo, the personal issues you have with me (because I was not open to your public or private dissection of my Indian) and our clear difference of opinions. Is there anything regarding Shamo, tbecause that was the topic on hand, that you would like to add or share, constructive being the ideal, with the group so they are more informed????

 

[BKPUCKETT]

pistols at 20 paces ,

 

[BKPUCKETT]

I would like to see what you 3 have to say about this Bird