PBA(Parrot Beak Asil/Aseel) USA, Project(And Discussion Thread)

[MysteryChicken]

The Splash Duckwing Malay pullet decided to start laying eggs again after she took a small vacation while I was trying to get 4 eggs from her for hatching. She only gave me 3 before she went on vacation.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Another thing I'm testing is whether, or not temperature outside incubation further influences gender determination of chicks before they hatch. These one's both in incubator, & under broody hen are subjected to the same conditions. Temperature ranges are the 50's, 60's, & 70's. Humidity doesn't matter in the experiment.

 

[NatJ]

Another thing I'm testing is whether, or not temperature outside incubation further influences gender determination of chicks before they hatch. These one's both in incubator, & under broody hen are subjected to the same conditions. Temperature ranges are the 50's, 60's, & 70's. Humidity doesn't matter in the experiment.

There is no way temperature is going to change the genes in the chick.

So are you testing whether the hen gives different chromosomes before she lays the egg?

Or are you testing whether you can get a chick with the correct genes for one gender, and the appearance and physical traits of the other gender? That is mostly not going to work. Evidence: all the sex-linked chicks people produce, in a wide variety of conditions. There would be plenty of birds with the "wrong" color if it was easy to make them develop differently than what their genes say.

 

[MysteryChicken]

There is no way temperature is going to change the genes in the chick.

So are you testing whether the hen gives different chromosomes before she lays the egg?

Or are you testing whether you can get a chick with the correct genes for one gender, and the appearance and physical traits of the other gender? That is mostly not going to work. Evidence: all the sex-linked chicks people produce, in a wide variety of conditions. There would be plenty of birds with the "wrong" color if it was easy to make them develop differently than what their genes say.

I think temperature has influence on the finalization of gender of an unhatched chick. Like if the hen lays an egg that's meant to be female, a fluctuation within environment during incubation could change the chromosome to Male. Just an example.

It's just a test since I've had unusual even sexes last year. Usually I get either more girls, or more boys, never even amounts of each.


I've already succeeded once with the refrigerator method to change males to females since I learned about it years ago. But since they're still genetically Male, all offspring hatched were Males from that "Hen". This is abit different, but mostly an example.

 

[MysteryChicken]

There's 5 days left for broody eggs, & 8 days left on the incubator eggs.

 

[NatJ]

I think temperature has influence on the finalization of gender of an unhatched chick. Like if the hen lays an egg that's meant to be female, a fluctuation within environment during incubation could change the chromosome to Male. Just an example.

How could the chromosome change after the egg is laid?

If the egg has chromosomes ZZ (male), I see no possible way for it to make a W chromosome out of nothing. You can't just mess with Z and end up with a W that works right.

If the egg has chromosomes ZW (female), I suppose it might be possible to destroy the W and duplicate the existing Z, but I would not expect that work very well-- and besides, that would make females into males, which is the exact opposite of what most people want.

I've already succeeded once with the refrigerator method to change males to females since I learned about it years ago. But since they're still genetically Male, all offspring hatched were Males from that "Hen". This is abit different, but mostly an example.

That is definitely interesting. How many eggs did you hatch?

 

[MysteryChicken]

How could the chromosome change after the egg is laid?

If the egg has chromosomes ZZ (male), I see no possible way for it to make a W chromosome out of nothing. You can't just mess with Z and end up with a W that works right.

If the egg has chromosomes ZW (female), I suppose it might be possible to destroy the W and duplicate the existing Z, but I would not expect that work very well-- and besides, that would make females into males, which is the exact opposite of what most people want.


That is definitely interesting. How many eggs did you hatch?

I snuck 1 refrigerated egg in my incubator one year, I refrigerated it for 3 days before placing. It hatched female.
Then I hatched 4 unrefrigerated eggs from that bird inside my incubator, & all 4 were males.
I got pictures of the "Hen", & Offspring.

How could the chromosome change after the egg is laid?

It's a theory. I can only guess on how it could change.

 

[NatJ]

I snuck 1 refrigerated egg in my incubator one year, I refrigerated it for 3 days before placing. It hatched female.
Then I hatched 4 unrefrigerated eggs from that bird inside my incubator, & all 4 were males.
I got pictures of the "Hen", & Offspring.

With only 4, that is well within the range of what can happen from a completely normal hen.

Do you still have her? Maybe hatch some more of her eggs? Or try a DNA sex test?

There is about a 1 in 8 chance of getting 4 chicks that are the same sex as each other, so a 1 in 16 chance of getting all males from a set of 4 eggs. That is much more likely than the chance of having a "hen" with ZZ male chromosomes, no matter what you did with the egg.

So you might be right, but I don't think you have enough evidence yet to prove it.

It's a theory. I can only guess on how it could change.

It doesn't make any sense to me, but I don't see any obvious way to settle the matter. You and I think different things about it, and that's that.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Last years birds were a series of small batches.

Genders that hatched:

2 Red JungleFowl/Sebright cross Males,

1, Silkie Male

3, Chameleon Males

4, Malay Males

5, Malay Females

1, Marans/American Game/Heritage Plymouth Barred Rock cross Female

1, Very Mixed Female for a friend

4, Female Chameleons
‐----‐-----------------------------------------------

So 10 Males total.

11, Females total last year.

It was a pretty hot year then. So I'm testing with cooler environments for comparison.

 

[MysteryChicken]

With only 4, that is well within the range of what can happen from a completely normal hen.

Do you still have her? Maybe hatch some more of her eggs? Or try a DNA sex test?

There is about a 1 in 8 chance of getting 4 chicks that are the same sex as each other, so a 1 in 16 chance of getting all males from a set of 4 eggs. That is much more likely than the chance of having a "hen" with ZZ male chromosomes, no matter what you did with the egg.

So you might be right, but I don't think you have enough evidence yet to prove it.


It doesn't make any sense to me, but I don't see any obvious way to settle the matter. You and I think different things about it, and that's that.

I don't have her anymore as I was getting rid of Bantams. But I could replicate it this year with new birds.