Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[Shadrach]

Thanks for the link; some interesting comments and refs (especially https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rspb.2013.1296 , which we might want to discuss with the 'birds of a feather flock together' notion in mind...?), but I wish they'd been in less of a hurry. The methods used leave a lot to be desired, and I don't think I'll be logging the results.

Do you have links to any papers where differentiating between biological relatedness and social familiarity is the aim, or where those two things are clearly separated and there is no possibility of confusion (unlike with that paper; 14 days of separation is not enough imo). It is not clear to me how a roo can know his own offspring among the young of a single mixed clutch fertilized, incubated, and raised within a flock in which several males are present. (I haven't finished the RoyalSoc paper yet; maybe it's answered there.)

Not the greatest of studies is it.
I don't have any more relevant studies. I did read some of the links some time ago but got bored. What's interesting for me is at least someone has thought about the issue.
As with many of these lab based studies I'm left with a number of problems. The first being what happens under lab conditions may not and often doesn't reflect what happens outside of the lab.
One of my favourite examples of this is the hens prefer roosters with big combs study. It would take pages of writing to cover all the things that are wrong with the study I read and even longer to pull to bits the popular science reports the study germinated.

We still have one seemingly almost insurmountable problem when it comes to studying other creatures and that is we, those who study, have a deep reluctance to view ourselves as no more than another creature from the same beginings as every other creature (hopefully this is tactfull enough to avoid instant rebuttal) This has meant that comparisons between ourselves and other creatures is still unfortunately discouraged. Some will call this anthropomorphism and the credo that discourages this is going to, and has got, in the way of most behavioural studies of other creatures.

My time of reading lots of studies for my area of interest, behaviour, has long gone. The topic is just too complicated for easy dissection and lab study. Stick me in a lab for a few days and I can guarantee the choices I'll make will be vastly different to those I would make in my usual environment.

These days and for some time now, I observe and consider what I've seen and in some instances report on it. If enough people state they have seen similar under similar circumstances then I have a theory. Get lots (significant numbers) of agreement then I've got a strong theory.

Facts, when it comes to behaviour are few and far between.

Do chickens know who they are related to?
Do the males show less aggression to their relatives when it comes to having sex with their wives?
The senior males I've known didn't seem to object to their sons and daughters having sex with each other. Fathers having sex with daughters has been very common in the groups I've looked after. Is this because there haven't been any alternatives? Nope, not in the groups I've seen.

 

[LTAY1946]

I have some TAX type photos to edit and maybe some worth posting. The new new Easter Egger Roos have been officially named Simon for the single combed and Shuster for the pea combed one. That was my wife's doing. I also was able to get a few images of the wayward Cornish in the log pile.

 

[TropicalChickies]

I have some TAX type photos to edit and maybe some worth posting. The new new Easter Egger Roos have been officially named Simon for the single combed and Shuster for the pea combed one. That was my wife's doing. I also was able to get a few images of the wayward Cornish in the log pile.

Better than Simon & Garfunkle

 

[LTAY1946]

Better than Simon & Garfunkle

I think they look a lot better. Both have fine red feathers.

 

[TropicalChickies]

We still have one seemingly almost insurmountable problem when it comes to studying other creatures and that is we, those who study, have a deep reluctance to view ourselves as no more than another creature from the same beginings as every other creature

Hmmm... Well, yes, but -- and I really don't mean to offend or generalize about the nuances of anyone's particular belief system -- but there is this famous bit in the Bible here:
“Let us make humankind in our image, according to our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the wild animals of the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”


So it seems to me -- without commenting right now on whether or not that particular belief -- along with others like reductive rationalism-- may have led to anything in particular (https://www.forbes.com/sites/grrlsc...ion-event-will-be-worse-than-first-predicted/)

But that it's very possible for one to believe that human creatures have the same beginnings as other creatures, but that the entity responsible for those beginnings also granted humans dominion over the others.

The meaning of dominion being, "supreme authority; the power of governing and controlling." Having dominion implies superiority over the "lower" creatures. And if one believes in dominion, that's where the basis for comparison ends.

Tax. Juniors exercising dominion over the dust bath.

"Toby, get your #$&@ tail out of my face!"

 

[Perris]

Janeka's inbuilt weather forecaster says our cool drizzly 'summer' is going to improve at the end of the first week of August. (She's gone broody )

Eve concurs with this forecast... with one coop already functioning as a convalescent home, and one already occupied by a broody, I will have to break her unfortunately

 

[TropicalChickies]

Eve concurs with this forecast... with one coop already functioning as a convalescent home, and one already occupied by a broody, I will have to break her unfortunately

I'm hoping Dusty (my little black frizzle) goes broody again. She's young (11 mos) but I think she'll be a good mom. This is my first time setting Lucio-fertilized eggs aside for a hatch. Given his age, they should all be fertile. The ones I've been cracking to eat all have been (white spots in all the yolks from all four layers).

Here I've got 2 of Dusty's, one from Rusty, and one from Tina. I'm not saving Patucha's because there's already four little Patuchas running around. Storing on their sides inside the clay kiln, which is the most reliably cool place I've got.

Btw @Perris , since switching to homemade feed six weeks ago, the broodies have all come back to lay and everyone's eggs seem fine. Im getting 2-3 eggs per day from the 4 layers, good strong shells, thick albumen, rich yolks. I'm not particularly production minded and keep hens who don't lay for friendship, but tasty eggs are nice...

My Butchie. Doesn't lay, but pays her rent in sweetness.

 

[Perris]

Do chickens know who they are related to?

I've made some progress on this today. My provisional but definitely shaky grasp of this issue is that females might be able to tell (by smell) if a male has a very similar genetic makeup to themselves in one specific area called the major histocompatibility complex (heavy wikipedia page for the seriously interested here, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_histocompatibility_complex [with some interesting observations on the effect of oral contraceptives on the functionality of this possible mechanism in humans]), and that they favour diversity over similarity, which might help specifically with disease resistance in the offspring. Smell and phenotype are both sidestepped by artificial insemination, and so is the favouritism, the Proc Royal Soc paper finds, suggesting perhaps an active role for the hen's sensibilities.

 

[TropicalChickies]

I've made some progress on this today. My provisional but definitely shaky grasp of this issue is that females might be able to tell (by smell) if a male has a very similar genetic makeup to themselves in one specific area called the major histocompatibility complex (heavy wikipedia page for the seriously interested here, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_histocompatibility_complex [with some interesting observations on the effect of oral contraceptives on the functionality of this possible mechanism in humans]), and that they favour diversity over similarity, which might help specifically with disease resistance in the offspring. Smell and phenotype are both sidestepped by artificial insemination, and so is the favouritism, the Proc Royal Soc paper finds, suggesting perhaps an active role for the hen's sensibilities.

Wow, that is heavy. I wonder if my dousing poor Lucio in sulfur soap makes the hens think he's a rotten egg...

 

[Ladies-Eight]

Ex Batts good afternoon one and all!

Henry is such a handsome guy.

Temperature is in the 90s.

Have a great day!