Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[16 and me]

June 2022 Théo sharing some cherries.
View attachment 3807381

What a beautiful boy!

But I just want to say that not all roosters will have the perfect, or even the usual attitude toward other members of the flock, and it can eventually work out if the chicken keepers have the possibility to adapt their settings, or their behaviour, or their expectations.

You make some very good points. In all my efforts to replace my original beta polish rooster with a rooster that is equal to my alpha, Pedro, I have learned to see things in this light. In hindsight, Paolo the Polish was actually a much better beta than I gave him credit for, and being new to chickens (& roosters in particular) I had greater, perhaps unreasonable expectations. Roosters are individuals, and actually quite simple animals. They have jobs to do, and some perform certain tasks better. In my case, I increase the complexity of the tasks by expecting what is by nature a dominant male to be subserviant to another dominant male.
I believe that my Samuel (Sammy) would have been a great roo if he was solo. He had a strong nature, and competing with the head roo brought out the worst of it. Without the competition of Pedro, I don't think he would have been such a nuisance.

If my rooster were attacking chicks, I would have done the same. Perhaps with different circumstances I may have separated him and studied the situation for a while to see what was going on and what could be done. Flock management is a part of chicken keeping that is a constant learning curve as you watch the nature of each bird individually, it's relationship with others & the dynamic of the flock as a whole.

Not all humans are great with others of their kind but there is a wide range between being impolite or moody and actually hurting people.

I sometimes wonder if my chickens ponder this and learn to tolerate what they perceive as my impolite & rude behaviour shooing them out of places I don't want them to be, or locking them back up in their pen when they want to be out.

 

[BDutch]

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...under-threat-as-bird-flu-takes-hold-worldwide

Seems like everyone is loosing heritage breeds of all kinds of livestock.

In my country the main problem is that less younger people are interested in breeding to the standards as it used to. Times have changed, other hobbies like gaming took over.

Because there are no shows/ exhibitions anymore where the hobbyist breeders gather and exchange info/chickens it became more difficult, to attract new hobbyists. And young people rarely have houses with large gardens where they can keep chickens and roosters as a hobby.

I know a few breeders did have problems with the HPAI and lost their flock. Yes..(in my country) if one bird is tested positive, the authorities will kill them all.

But I think (not sure) there are more hobbyists who stopped with heritage breeds because of old age.

The breeder where I bought eggs from (Naine de Tournaisis) several years ago died a year ago. He had more beautiful heritage breeds. I don’t know what has happened with his chickens but I know he had no relative who joined in his hobby.

 

[fuzzi]

I'm so sorry you had to go through this, especially after loosing Joël.
And I also believe you did what you had to do in your circumstances.


To challenge a bit this idea of "normal" roosters not being a threat for chicks, and let you know Samuel wasn't an exception, I would like to recall my own first experience of a rooster with chicks. I apologise as this is just an old story, and rather long and tedious, for those of you that were on this thread then.

Almost 2 years ago, I was just like you Fuzzi, asking here about my rooster Théo showing aggressive behaviour toward the chicks and the broody, with this video.

I was given more or less the same answers.
Théo, unlike Samuel, never actually hurt the chicks. But this was mostly due to the fact that the broody Chipie protected them ; most of the times not physically, as she had already taken a beating by Théo after fighting him a few months before, but by taking the chicks away from his reach. If she was cornered, like in the video she did try to protect them.

They were free ranging, and I stay at home, so this meant less possibilities of dangerous situations. I really wanted to try to keep Théo.

Those four chicks grew away from the flock. They only shared the coop with the other adults at night, and when it was raining. Théo kept chasing the girl chicks away, without hurting them, but he attacked and terrorised Gaston, the cockerel.

Long story short, two years after, another hatch, and Théo still here but now dominated by Gaston... things have gotten better. I know that he will systematically chase and be aggressive to any newcomers, chicks or adults. He considers them strangers. However, he has never really came to hurt any other chickens. He is a pain for the hens, because he keeps trying to tread them and is so clumsy he rarely succeeds, but he doesn't actually wounds them. He is half bantam when two thirds of the hens are standards which maybe explain s his difficulty and the fact that they are less afraid of him. And when he lost dominance, the possibility of him harassing them really diminished, and he now spends a good part of his day avoiding the dominant rooster. I think his change of status has been the key to making him somewhat nicer, and that it may have also played a role the other way round into Samuel's behaviour.

Théo's manners with females and youngsters nowadays is sometimes inadequate, sometimes fine, and even endearing. For example, one of my original ex-batt's Blanche is very unwell, taking a long time to die, and he watches over her most of the day carefully. He will look out for her whenever I put her in isolation in all the places he knows she can be. However, he also tries to mate her every now and then, which is unacceptable in her state.

I really don't mean to say that it could have worked out with Samuel that way. The flock and the chicks needed to be protected from him. He was causing harm.

But I just want to say that not all roosters will have the perfect, or even the usual attitude toward other members of the flock, and it can eventually work out if the chicken keepers have the possibility to adapt their settings, or their behaviour, or their expectations.
Not all humans are great with others of their kind but there is a wide range between being impolite or moody and actually hurting people.

And I also want to insist that it's not only about the environment or the keeper's posture. None of the three other males that grew up here have shown those type of behaviour and temper.

June 2022 Théo sharing some cherries.
View attachment 3807381
Two weeks ago.
View attachment 3807383

Thank you.

I learn so much here.

 

[Molpet]

In my country the main problem is that less younger people are interested in breeding to the standards as it used to. Times have changed, other hobbies like gaming took over.

Because there are no shows/ exhibitions anymore where the hobbyist breeders gather and exchange info/chickens it became more difficult, to attract new hobbyists. And young people rarely have houses with large gardens where they can keep chickens and roosters as a hobby.

I know a few breeders did have problems with the HPAI and lost their flock. Yes..(in my country) if one bird is tested positive, the authorities will kill them all.

But I think (not sure) there are more hobbyists who stopped with heritage breeds because of old age.

The breeder where I bought eggs from (Naine de Tournaisis) several years ago died a year ago. He had more beautiful heritage breeds. I don’t know what has happened with his chickens but I know he had no relative who joined in his hobby.

Yes same here. The old timers are leaving and only a few kids take it up. People the Old timers sold quality stock to, have lost interest.

 

[fluffycrow]

In my country the main problem is that less younger people are interested in breeding to the standards as it used to. Times have changed, other hobbies like gaming took over.

Because there are no shows/ exhibitions anymore where the hobbyist breeders gather and exchange info/chickens it became more difficult, to attract new hobbyists. And young people rarely have houses with large gardens where they can keep chickens and roosters as a hobby.

I know a few breeders did have problems with the HPAI and lost their flock. Yes..(in my country) if one bird is tested positive, the authorities will kill them all.

But I think (not sure) there are more hobbyists who stopped with heritage breeds because of old age.

The breeder where I bought eggs from (Naine de Tournaisis) several years ago died a year ago. He had more beautiful heritage breeds. I don’t know what has happened with his chickens but I know he had no relative who joined in his hobby.

Here there weren't people interested in breeding or creating pure stock in the first place. Only now are people starting to get into breeding pure stock. Still, very few.



What did happen back then was that in this free breeding environment of sorts, the land and the needs of the people shaped their chickens into landraces



Unfortunately, those are getting lost as well. The new people who are interested in pure breeds don't believe the landraces are worth preserving, and the oldies are no longer breeding, or have moved on to more productive breeds and mixes

 

[Shadrach]

I'm so sorry you had to go through this, especially after loosing Joël.
And I also believe you did what you had to do in your circumstances.


To challenge a bit this idea of "normal" roosters not being a threat for chicks, and let you know Samuel wasn't an exception, I would like to recall my own first experience of a rooster with chicks. I apologise as this is just an old story, and rather long and tedious, for those of you that were on this thread then.

Almost 2 years ago, I was just like you Fuzzi, asking here about my rooster Théo showing aggressive behaviour toward the chicks and the broody, with this video.

I was given more or less the same answers.
Théo, unlike Samuel, never actually hurt the chicks. But this was mostly due to the fact that the broody Chipie protected them ; most of the times not physically, as she had already taken a beating by Théo after fighting him a few months before, but by taking the chicks away from his reach. If she was cornered, like in the video she did try to protect them.

They were free ranging, and I stay at home, so this meant less possibilities of dangerous situations. I really wanted to try to keep Théo.

Those four chicks grew away from the flock. They only shared the coop with the other adults at night, and when it was raining. Théo kept chasing the girl chicks away, without hurting them, but he attacked and terrorised Gaston, the cockerel.

Long story short, two years after, another hatch, and Théo still here but now dominated by Gaston... things have gotten better. I know that he will systematically chase and be aggressive to any newcomers, chicks or adults. He considers them strangers. However, he has never really came to hurt any other chickens. He is a pain for the hens, because he keeps trying to tread them and is so clumsy he rarely succeeds, but he doesn't actually wounds them. He is half bantam when two thirds of the hens are standards which maybe explain s his difficulty and the fact that they are less afraid of him. And when he lost dominance, the possibility of him harassing them really diminished, and he now spends a good part of his day avoiding the dominant rooster. I think his change of status has been the key to making him somewhat nicer, and that it may have also played a role the other way round into Samuel's behaviour.

Théo's manners with females and youngsters nowadays is sometimes inadequate, sometimes fine, and even endearing. For example, one of my original ex-batt's Blanche is very unwell, taking a long time to die, and he watches over her most of the day carefully. He will look out for her whenever I put her in isolation in all the places he knows she can be. However, he also tries to mate her every now and then, which is unacceptable in her state.

I really don't mean to say that it could have worked out with Samuel that way. The flock and the chicks needed to be protected from him. He was causing harm.

But I just want to say that not all roosters will have the perfect, or even the usual attitude toward other members of the flock, and it can eventually work out if the chicken keepers have the possibility to adapt their settings, or their behaviour, or their expectations.
Not all humans are great with others of their kind but there is a wide range between being impolite or moody and actually hurting people.

And I also want to insist that it's not only about the environment or the keeper's posture. None of the three other males that grew up here have shown those type of behaviour and temper.

June 2022 Théo sharing some cherries.
View attachment 3807381
Two weeks ago.
View attachment 3807383

But...
These problem males attacking chicks are exceptions. Not once in twenty something years of caring for chickens, all mixed groups have I ever had a male attack a chick and those that have just been unfriendly the mother teaches the chicks to stay away. But, all those years dealt with either fully free range or dawn to dusk unrestricteed movement ranging.
Related questions arise on the general forums regularly. Most of the responses from the more experienced keepers tend to state males attacking chics is rare, if it's happened at all for them.

The reductionists would have one believe that these types of behaviour are inherited through the genes. So, what happened with Dig? Couldn't wish to meet a nicer chap than Henry, Digs father. The mother, Fret, apart from her insecurity issues isn't exactly what I would describe as violent. Carbon is much worse.
Born bad, die bad. Doesn't leave much room for error does it, never mind the opportunities for redemption in whatever forms that might take.
There are lots of keepers who will tell you they either had easy roosters/cockerels from difficult males, or nightmares from lovely dads. Suppose, the aggresion comes from the other set of genes, you know, the female.

If on the other hand such attacking chick is more common than I've portrayed then I would be interested in knowing the keeping circumstances.
I believe one would find that an explanation for the behaviour could be found there.

 

[Shadrach]

Here there weren't people interested in breeding or creating pure stock in the first place. Only now are people starting to get into breeding pure stock. Still, very few.



What did happen back then was that in this free breeding environment of sorts, the land and the needs of the people shaped their chickens into landraces



Unfortunately, those are getting lost as well. The new people who are interested in pure breeds don't believe the landraces are worth preserving, and the oldies are no longer breeding, or have moved on to more productive breeds and mixes

Odd in my opinion. The landrace breeds are the ones worth preserving.

 

[BDutch]

But...
These problem males attacking chicks are exceptions. Not once in twenty something years of caring for chickens, all mixed groups have I ever had a male attack a chick and those that have just been unfriendly the mother teaches the chicks to stay away. But, all those years dealt with either fully free range or dawn to dusk unrestricteed movement ranging.
Related questions arise on the general forums regularly. Most of the responses from the more experienced keepers tend to state males attacking chics is rare, if it's happened at all for them.

The reductionists would have one believe that these types of behaviour are inherited through the genes. So, what happened with Dig? Couldn't wish to meet a nicer chap than Henry, Digs father. The mother, Fret, apart from her insecurity issues isn't exactly what I would describe as violent. Carbon is much worse.
Born bad, die bad. Doesn't leave much room for error does it, never mind the opportunities for redemption in whatever forms that might take.
There are lots of keepers who will tell you they either had easy roosters/cockerels from difficult males, or nightmares from lovely dads. Suppose, the aggresion comes from the other set of genes, you know, the female.

If on the other hand such attacking chick is more common than I've portrayed then I would be interested in knowing the keeping circumstances.
I believe one would find that an explanation for the behaviour could be found there.

I like to believe you are right about the keeping circumstances. That the female genes would be responsible is bullocks imho. With > 500 years experience in breeding and selection by all kind of humans, I’m sure someone would have noticed this before you.

 

[Shadrach]

Another lovely afternoon despite it being a bit chilly. Three and a half hours today. Mow does eat from the green tray with the others but she's the first one to get shoved out until the favourite bits are eaten. I make the small bowl up and the four of them sort of swap around.

Mow doesn't get thrown out of the dust baths which is a good sign.

 

[Shadrach]

I like to believe you are right about the keeping circumstances. That the female genes would be responsible is bullocks imho. With > 500 years experience in breeding and selection by all kind of humans, I’m sure someone would have noticed this before you.

What I wonder do you think the female genes provide; just the good bits.