Skinny, shabby looking flock - worms, mites, molt, more?

[Missceegee]

One of my flocks is sorry looking.


Flock
There are 30 hens and 1 roo in the flock.
The oldest are 15 months. The next bunch is 10 months. The newbies are approximately 13 months. They have never had a good molt.

Setup
38’x10’ open air coop/run combo with access to fenced pasture.deep litter with pine shavings in whole structure.

Feed
Naturewise Layer recently switched to Naturewise Feather Fixer. They go through 50 lbs a week roughly. Oyster shell is available. Occasionally get hydrohen in water. Currently have some ACV in water.

Treats
Scratch and dried mealworms, occasional stuff from the kitchen (kale, berries, yogurt). Before we knew better we gave a lot of scratch but that’s been 9+ months back.

Behavior
Fine. Hunting and pecking. Eating and drinking. No excessive bullying. I’ve sat here over a hour this morning and see is occasional random pecks here or there. Nothing worrisome. Energetic and normal.

Poop
Mostly normal. Since deworming I have seen some black dirt looking poop. Unsure which bird. I have seen a few but not large # worms in poop since deworming. Less than 10.

Condition
- Feathers look sorry and worn out some tip up oddly and don’t look sleek.
- Many of the Chickens are skinny to the point of emaciated on body condition scale.
- Some with pale dry combs. Many with some peck marks.
- One bird with almost bald head.
- I get 20-24 eggs from this flock a day.
- Some with poop on butts that hasn’t been before.
- I am seeing random feathers in the coop/run but not like a feather bomb.

What I have tried
On 4/23/22
- ivermectin pour on for worms as I have only ever dusted with DE previously. Before this no visible worms. After I have seen a few in poop. It has been highly suggested to me that I deworm at least 2 times per year by more experienced keepers
- permethrin sprayed in coop and on birds as I saw evidence of a few mites/lice the night before e

This may be overkill, but I am trying to tackle all angles. Pictures of my BO who is the worst along with the baldy and the roo and random for upturned feathers many have. It seems we went from great to not great quickly offer a couple weeks. Most worrisome is how skinny some are.

 

[Missceegee]

@aart @rosemarythyme - Do y’all or anyone else have ideas?

 

[aart]

If they actually have mites or lice, they need to be treated with permethrin on the skin(and maybe coop depending on which kind of mites) every 7-10 days for 2-3 rounds.
Have you checked them over real well for mites and/or lice?

Google images of lice/mites and their eggs before the inspection so you'll know what you're looking for.

Part the feathers right down to the skin around vent, head/neck and under wings.

Best done well after dark with a strong flashlight/headlight, easier to 'catch' bird and also to check for the mites that live in structure and only come out at night to feed off roosting birds.

Wipe a white paper towel along the underside of roost to look for red smears(smashed well fed mites).

Good post about mite ID by Lady McCamley:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/my-chicken-has-mites-now-what.1273674/page-2#post-20483008


Worms.....what kind did you see?
I don't believe pour in ivermectin is effective for worming.
@dawg53 know way more about worming than I, and they live in your state.

 

[Missceegee]

If they actually have mites or lice, they need to be treated with permethrin on the skin(and maybe coop depending on which kind of mites) every 7-10 days for 2-3 rounds.
Have you checked them over real well for mites and/or lice?

Google images of lice/mites and their eggs before the inspection so you'll know what you're looking for.

Part the feathers right down to the skin around vent, head/neck and under wings.

Best done well after dark with a strong flashlight/headlight, easier to 'catch' bird and also to check for the mites that live in structure and only come out at night to feed off roosting birds.

Wipe a white paper towel along the underside of roost to look for red smears(smashed well fed mites).

Good post about mite ID by Lady McCamley:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/my-chicken-has-mites-now-what.1273674/page-2#post-20483008


Worms.....what kind did you see?
I don't believe pour in ivermectin is effective for worming.
@dawg53 know way more about worming than I, and they live in your state.

Aart- I did check them really well after dark and nothing on the paper towel or the birds that i could see. But during the day, I found two crawly things on one hen. I did treat with permethrin in coop and on birds same day I did pour on ivermectin. Maybe overkill, not sure. But they act perfectly fine. I plan to do it for at least 3 weeks. Tomorrow will be 2nd time.

Worms - the few I saw in poop after ivermectin were small. Not much bigger than threads. It’s my first worm experience so I’m not positive. I haven’t seen more. Ivermectin was the suggested solution from the store as the options were limited. Should I redo with ivermectin or do it with something I can order?

Tonight I weighed some so I can verify loss/gain going forward. Never done that before. They are much less than I would expect. Weights in pounds.

My newer birds - about 12-13 months
CQ - Nutmeg - 2.0

EE - Hazel - 3.6

Black Copper Mar. - Godiva - 2.0

Deleware - Alice - 1.6

My Oldest Birds 10-14 months
BO - Eggs- 2.6

RIR Rooster - Big Red - 2.6

RIR - KFC - 1.6

RIR - Amelia Egghart - 0.6

RIR - Waddles - 1.8

RIR - Zaxbys - 1.4

RIR - Dottie - 1.6

Brown Leghorn - Badger - 1.2


The feathers look bad but I don’t know if that is a first molt thing.

It’s distressing. All was well and wishing a week or two they look awful. I’ve had to cull one with vent fleet and I’ve dealt with bumblefoot and a respiratory thing way back last year, and fowl pox. Through all of that they didn’t look this bad. It’s just strange that they are so active. A local chicken friend suggested some dry cat food mixed with water or canned for extra protein. Thoughts?

 

[rosemarythyme]

A small amount of cat food is ok for protein. How much are you feeding in treats/extras?

Hopefully dawg53 pops in with advice on worming as I know it's a bigger issue in your neck of the woods and something you need to stay on top of, and obviously can contribute to the weight loss you've been seeing.

 

[Missceegee]

I’m alarmed at how little they weigh. They get a handful or less of mealworms every day or two. Occ. half handful scratch. Some kitchen scraps - kale, berries, squash, yogurt - occasionally.

I’m going to the store tomorrow morning to look for valbazen I guess. It seems most recommended except for tapeworms. I’ll start there along with the permethrin spray.

Thank you.

 

[Kiki]

I’m alarmed at how little they weigh. They get a handful or less of mealworms every day or two. Occ. half handful scratch. Some kitchen scraps - kale, berries, squash, yogurt - occasionally.

I’m going to the store tomorrow morning to look for valbazen I guess. It seems most recommended except for tapeworms. I’ll start there along with the permethrin spray.

Thank you.

Stop ALL of the treats. Every time you feed anything besides the complete balance commercially made chicken feed you are taking away from the bird getting a balanced.

Not getting a balanced diet causes all kinds of issues.

 

[Missceegee]

I am happy to report the chickens are not as thin as I thought. I questioned the scales accuracy from last night so used a different kitchen scale and while still skinny we are much better than I thought.

Dosed all with Valbazen according to weight and dusted with permethrin

 

[Missceegee]

I do have a few that seem to have also gotten scaly leg mites. I’ll tackle that in the next day or so. We went from good to falling apart over here.

Question - should I start noticing more worms in poop?

 

[Missceegee]

@dawg53 @aart @rosemarythyme

Thoughts? They’re still active and eating well, drinking well. I’m not seeing loads of worms and I really thought I would.

Several hens have poopy butts now and my rooster Big Red’s butt is red (photo attached) and missing feathers. We’ve done two weeks permethrin, one ivermectin pour on and then learned Valbazen better soon one of that too. I am not seeing any creepy crawlers or evidence. Is this from the Valbazen and permethrin?

There are more feathers in the coop so I think it may be a molt on top of it all. And someone has started with soft shell eggs.