Something is wrong with this hen...HEAVY pics...

CamsCluckinChicks

Songster
10 Years
Jul 20, 2009
150
7
111
Clunette
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I have a sickly hen...

1) What type of bird , age and weight. She is Red Sex Link/Red Star (even though I was told she's a RIR - ha). Rhody is supposedly just a little over 1 year...probably right around 5 or 6 pounds.

2) What is the behavior, exactly. Right now she is REALLY into eating, but she is pale, hasn't laid an egg in a couple of weeks, was sneezing and rattly (treated that & is cleared up...was MY fault without proper ventilation and heating...I HATE making 1st timers mistakes!!). I will go into detail as to her history, etc. below.

3) How long has the bird been exhibiting symptoms? Approximately 2 weeks...but maybe longer...?

4) Is there any bleeding, injury, broken bones or other sign of trauma. No trauma, bleeding or injury.

5) What happened, if anything that you know of, that may have caused the situation. 1st - the situation she came from, 2nd - my 1st year as a chicken farmetter.

6) What has the bird been eating and drinking, if at all. She won't stop eating. Everytime I go out to the garage (she's in a mini coop in the garage...far, far away from my mean li'l Bantam Cochin cockerel who is also in a mini coop in the garage because he took to cock fighting. Grr) she's eating. She eats her regular layer feed, any fruits or veggies I put out there. She won't drink homemade electrolytes (found recipe in The Chicken Health Handbook). But, she will drink the water with both Wazine and antibiotics. Go figure.

7) How does the poop look? Normal? Bloody? Runny? etc. The ONLY poop I can find seems to be, once again, attached to her rump! See pic for reference.

8) What has been the treatment you have administered so far? 1st, I treated with Tetracycline Hydrochloride Soluble Powder mixed in with their (I treated the entire flock) drinking water. I did this because I had several chickens sneezing and sounding snotty nosed. I only treated for 4 days because we quickly discovered (THANK YOU BYC!!) that I was over-heating their coop and not providing enough ventilation. Amazing how fast the sniffles cleared up when I opened their ventilation openings and removed 1 heat bulb...now there's 1 heat bulb that only comes on overnight and only when it's below freezing. There is 1 'white' bulb that comes on from 7:00am to 9:00pm...this provides very little heat, but enough extra 'daylight' to keep my girls laying. Then there is one more bulb, but it's the bulb below their galvanized waterer to keep the water from freezing. It does let out some heat, though, but not much. After that, I noticed Rhody (hen in question) had a more poopy butt than usual (she has ALWAYS had poopy fluff). She also had taken to 'hiding' in the coop when all the other chickens were out getting their morning 'treats' of fruits & veggies or cracked corn in the afternoon. I brought her in, cleaned her fluff (old toothbrush and warm water), wrapped her in a towel & she slept in my arms for about an hour. She seemed 'better' after her bath, but I went ahead and treated her with Wazine, then began giving her electrolytes...which I quickly realized she wouldn't drink (too salty maybe?). I went ahead and put her back on antibiotics. She is currently drinking antibiotic water, eating watermelon, cabbage, baby spinach, romaine lettuce and layer feed. She also has an unlimited supply of grit and oyster shell.

9 ) What is your intent as far as treatment? For example, do you want to treat completely yourself, or do you need help in stabilizing the bird til you can get to a vet? Hey, at this point, I would consider the vet, but I have to find one that treats livestock...unless my dogs' vet would be willing... LOL!

10) If you have a picture of the wound or condition, please post it. It may help. I'm posting several pic's - sorry it's pic heavy. I tried to get a close up of her poopy fluff, as well as her comb, wattles, wings, etc. The pic's I took of her vent didn't come out...guess it was too graphic.
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11) Describe the housing/bedding in use She is currently in a 'mini' coop by herself...the coop is a 4' square, 4' high with a wood floor...and the coop is in our garage. The garage is not heated, but she has a brooder lamp (which also serves to keep her water from freezing) and she is protected from wind, etc. She is completely enclosed with a wire top, so she's getting good ventilation. She has straw for bedding...probably 3" deep and she has a 5 gallon bucket as a nesting box, but she hasn't laid in quite a while. Her food bowl is a large galvanized metal 'bowl' that is probably 14" across and 2" deep. She has a traditional 2 gallon plastic poultry waterer. She stands in her feed while eating...I know this isn't unusual...but if you look in the pic's, you can see how they butchered her beak at the hatchery where she came from (there was a middle woman and she was evil). She seems to 'spill' water out of her mouth when she's eating. It's making for some mushy food. So, I started just giving her about 3/4 scoop (stainless steel scoop with 4 cup capacity) of food per day, plus spreading some veggies, fruit & scratch throughout the day in her coop.

So. She was given Tetracycline for 4 days. Brought inside. Water for 24 hours, followed by 6 hours of Wazine-treated water. I then gave her electrolyte water...she wouldn't drink that. I returned her to Tetracycline. I'm positive I'm doing something wrong. Would someone please tell me what it is. I'm seriously considering taking her to our veterinarian...he has thus far treated all of our animals...snakes, iguana's, a pigeon (don't ask), a Cockatiel, our dogs, cats...you name it. LOL!

Here are the pic's I just took this morning (yes, that's my stove in my kitchen - lol)...

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Her feathers have always looked like this...I've been told it's because she's an "ex-battery" hen.

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Poopy fluff - much better than before because I cleaned it Sunday. You can see her vent a little bit and it looks inflamed maybe?

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This pic is slightly washed out, but you can still tell her comb and wattles aren't very bright.

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See how pale she seems? Or is it just me??

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You can really see what a horrible job that was done on her beak! I worry this could potentially be part of her problem?

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Close up of right side of comb. See the white?

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It doesn't seem to me she is preening...or could this be molting...or just the ex-battery hen thing? She's always looked rough, but the other 3 I got at the same time have feathered in. Rhody is the dominant hen of those four and she is one of Jake's favorite to mate...her feathers could also be from that, correct?

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See what I mean by poopy butt?

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After looking at these pic's again and then going back out to see her in person, I think her legs look a little pale too. She does not have any mites or lice, her skin is white, she doesn't seem emaciated and she obviously has a good appetite and drinks well (as long as I don't try to give her electrolytes).

A little background on Rhody: She was originally from a hatchery...egg production and meat production. She didn't sell (along with approximately 300 other production birds), so they were offered to a local woman for butchering for $1 each. She took the birds (all of them), butchered as many as she could in 2 weeks and then offered them for sale at $3 per bird. She had NO provisions for these birds. They were running wild on her property, the only water source was a pond, it was horribly muddy out and there were several dead birds laying around. The four reds I took were foraging in her garden and looked the best. We quarantined them for 90 days before allowing them around my babies I raised from day-old chicks. During the quarantine, the only thing I noticed (besides their bull dog beaks), was they had some diarrhea in the beginning, which subsided within 2 weeks. Granted, I was giving them fresh water, layer feed, grit & oyster shell. I know three of them were laying before we merged... It's possible Rhody has never layed, although I have seen her sitting in the nest boxes on several occassions and there was usually a dark brown egg in that nest when I checked later.

She was originally kept in a wire cage. Could she have coccidiosis from being exposed to other chickens' stool since she was never exposed to anyone's but herself prior? I have never seen blood in any of my chickens stool or even on an egg...except for a GIANT egg I was receiving every 3rd or 4th day...it was HUGE!! Could this have been hers and caused a hemorhage or something?

I'm getting some ACV today...our health food store was closed Sunday & Monday. I'm also going to bring her inside for awhile and see if she ever actually poo's...if so, I'll update possibly with more pic's.
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Any other idea's are sincerely welcome!! Even if, especially if, it's something I'm doing wrong!!

Thanks!!
Cami
 
The swelling of the comb and wattles could point to AI

OMG!
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I hope not!!
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I looked into vent gleet and there are several possibilities I found including worms (which I have since treated her with Wazine and will do again as advised), chronic mucky bum (quoted from a gentleman from England) and it says that requires regular cleaning of the fluff and it just is what it is and vent gleet, which is caused by weak sphincter muscles and if this is the case, limit the greens and that's about all you can do. Worms I can get rid of...but I would think I would be seeing more evidence of diarrhea in the rest of the flock...haven't seen anything unusual at all. The other 2 possibilities simply makes her a 'special needs' hen.

But, the AI freaks me out! I'm going to call the livestock vet in the next town & see if I can get her in soon.

Thanks for freaking me out! LOL!
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Chronic Mucky Bum
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Her mutilated beak can't be helping matters! She just doesn't seem to be able to absorb the same nutrition as the other birds you rescued. Has her pooped changed since you wormed her?
 
Our vet thinks it's Biotin Deficiency. It's fairly rare anymore because the feeds are much more balanced, but because of her time spent fending for herself...well, it left her weakened and damaged her kidneys. She said to keep her separated for a while longer and substitute her feed with oatmeal, nuts, scrambled eggs, banana, low-fat yogurt, carrots & papaya. She said it wouldn't be a bad idea to also make sure the other 3 girls that took the horrible journey with her gets some of these things as well.

Anyway, Biotin Deficiency becomes a renal disease in poultry (kidney failure). Which explains why, when I brought her inside and left her running around in the house (hardwood floors!!), she immediately went to the water bowl I sat up for her and drank for a straight 10 minutes before even paying any attention to the feed I gave her! I had noticed (in the dark recesses of my lesion-riddled brain!!...Thought I better add I have MS and it's attacked me cognitively...things don't always make sense to me at 1st...lol) each day when I replaced her water, it seemed to be VERY empty compared to the cockerel's 2 gallon waterer...she was drinking about twice as much as he was.

I'm off to make some warm oatmeal with banana slices for a chicken. I'm also removing her from my house and putting her back in her crate...she is extremely messy!!
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Thanks for the update! Do they have any kind of vitamin supplements in the UK that you could give her? (Are you in UK?). In the US there is poly-vi-sol, which you can give, 3 drops per day to supplement their feed. She could also have internal parasites BECAUSE of her weakened condition, which the others may have been able to fend off. Did the vet look at her droppings at all?
 
I'm in the US - Northern Indiana. Yes, the vet looked at her droppings, if you can call them that. They were VERY watery and full of styrates, which is what led her to start looking at kidney's. Especially after I gave her the history on the hen. I have 3 others that I got with her that I'm watching.

I'm so bummed.
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Rhody is my hen that lays the GIANT (almost goose size!!!) egg every 3 or so days...she might not ever lay again because of someone thinking they were 'helping' by taking all those hens. They didn't have water, feed, etc. She apparently thought they could butcher several hundred chickens in a matter of a couple days. I don't butcher my chickens. My 'eating' chicken comes from the store without bones, skin or feathers. I tell everyone that's how I know MY chickens are not edible! LOL! But, I know a lot of people who do eat their chickens...I just was raised in town all my life and was never around 'that' part of life. So, I can't imagine eating an animal I've named!! Ha ha! My family affectionately refers to me as a "Tree Hugger".
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Anyway, her beak is pretty messed up (as you can see in the pics). Looks like not only a butcher job on the debeaking, but also she appears to have a slight cross beak. I'm going to continue keeping her in quarantine and making sure she has tons of fresh water, warm oatmeal with scrambled eggs and banana slices...and I'm getting some plain peanuts (#1 source of Biotin - who knew?) to crush up for her. We are going to give her a couple of weeks to see how she's doing. If, after the two weeks, there's no improvement, unfortunately my husband will cull her. I hate it, but I can't imagine keeping a separate place for this hen indefinitely...she isn't laying, her health is obviously compromised...and what chicken wants to live alone?

On the UK confusion... I'm not from the UK, but I have found a lot of good info from UK chicken owners. Seems they've been keeping backyard chickens far longer than we have here in the US. It's pretty big business over there and they seem to have more products available.

In the US there is poly-vi-sol, which you can give, 3 drops per day to supplement their feed.

I will check into getting poly-vi-sol. Is this something that would be beneficial to give my chickens during the winter months or is it something I should only give to help boost a sick/injured chook?

You guys are amazing!!
Thanks again & again & again...!!
Cami​
 
This is interesting because one or two of our Red Star hens (just like yours) get that poopy butt, too. And it smells awful!
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Their combs seem pale, too...but I think that's from the cold (dryness) because it gets so chilly and the humidity gets so cold in the winter here. Their combs aren't as white in the summer.

Maybe we have the same problem? Although the two hens we have didn't used to be battery hens, that I know of. We got them for free from someone who wasn't taking care of them very well...they were going bald and had worms and scaly leg mites.
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So maybe the conditions they were in caused the poopy butt?
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Anyway, how is your hen doing now?
 
This is interesting because one or two of our Red Star hens (just like yours) get that poopy butt, too. And it smells awful! Their combs seem pale, too...but I think that's from the cold (dryness) because it gets so chilly and the humidity gets so cold in the winter here. Their combs aren't as white in the summer.

Maybe we have the same problem? Although the two hens we have didn't used to be battery hens, that I know of. We got them for free from someone who wasn't taking care of them very well...they were going bald and had worms and scaly leg mites. So maybe the conditions they were in caused the poopy butt?

Anyway, how is your hen doing now?

I really do believe it's the conditions they lived in prior to us with spoiled chickens. Two of the main reasons it happens are lack of clean water and as an aftermath of infectious bronchitis. And IB is commonly caused because of too high of humidity in the coop...For example, I caused a few of my chickens to get it because it was so cold outside and I was worried about them. I put 2 heat lamps plus 1 white light in their coop and closed up too many of the vents. I hate learning things the hard way!!
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Yes, it is an extremely awful smell! I had Rhody in the house for about 2 hours yesterday so I could actually see some of her poo that wasn't attached to her bum. It took over an hour to get one. And wow. Ick!
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She drank 2 full gallons of water in the past 24 hours, so I have to keep an eye on her water to make sure she doesn't go without. She turned her nose up at the oatmeal and scrambled eggs.
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I'm going to try again today.
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