Stubborn, Painful Bumblefoot - No Core

[buffy-the-eggpile-layer]

The corn pads are a good idea, I've used homemade ones on occasion (made from pool noodles or craft foam from the dollar store), they can help take the pressure off the area.
I have a roo that has had a couple of really nasty bouts with bumblefoot that is the stringy/ribbony kind, so I know how difficult that is. His first bout took about a year to resolve. At one point I was concerned about osteomyelitis, I lanced what I thought was a pus pocket and hit bone. I did a long round of a combination of clindamycin and SMZ-TMP, dosing was my guess based on lots of research, and I adjusted it several times. I would watch his droppings and if they changed, I would change the dose, until he was tolerating it well. Second time I used sugardine, since nothing else was working. Because, yes, it is really hard to clean that kind of bumblefoot out and get it all. It was that, or euthanize as I'd decided that enough was enough and I wasn't going to cut into his poor feet again. So I cleaned it out as well as I could, and packed it with sugardine (which is not expensive and is easy to do) and I repacked it every day, cleaning out any visible pus each time and flushing. It took awhile, but it slowly started to heal up. This thread has a picture, and explains what I did, post #8 in this link: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/bumblefoot-not-healing.1443809/#post-23973555
He is still with me (He's 8 years old now) and has not had another bout since I got the last one cleared up, and it's been several years. Knock on wood! I check his feet regularly since he has a history of issues.

this is really helpful! Thanks for sharing your experience--I'm glad to hear your rooster is with you and still doing well. That's gives me hope. I, too, fear osteomyelitis in my Dru, since it seems the infection is deep in her foot pad and not on the surface.

I'm going to try corn pads/pool noodle approach next, with maybe a new dressing every few days. Fingers crossed.

Where do I find clindamycin and SMZ-TMP?

 

[coach723]

There are other sources, so shop around for the best prices, everything has gone up.
Links below, so you know what you are looking for. I grind them up with a mortar and pestle and mix them into softened (not melted) coconut oil, and then divide into correct doses. Refrigerate or freeze them, and you have a custom pill that goes down pretty easy.
I've found that easiest as some of the meds don't dissolve well in water, so trying to syringe them orally mixed with liquid is difficult.

https://atozvetsupply.com/70007.html

https://www.calvetsupply.com/aquarium-clindamycin-150mg-100-capsules.html

https://www.entirelypets.com/thomas-labs-bird-sulfa.html

https://dambshop.com/products/fish-...zL_LV2McLxFbsdT2iAD7LpKtU6mT7xRRoCnXcQAvD_BwE

https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail...jmcfBKDJ9y90P4pTtApiQlwcMsNHEE7hoCdoIQAvD_BwE

 

[buffy-the-eggpile-layer]

There are other sources, so shop around for the best prices, everything has gone up.
Links below, so you know what you are looking for. I grind them up with a mortar and pestle and mix them into softened (not melted) coconut oil, and then divide into correct doses. Refrigerate or freeze them, and you have a custom pill that goes down pretty easy.
I've found that easiest as some of the meds don't dissolve well in water, so trying to syringe them orally mixed with liquid is difficult.

https://atozvetsupply.com/70007.html

https://www.calvetsupply.com/aquarium-clindamycin-150mg-100-capsules.html

https://www.entirelypets.com/thomas-labs-bird-sulfa.html

https://dambshop.com/products/fish-sulfa-forte-sulfamethoxazole-800-mg-trimethoprim-160-mg-tablets-100-count?currency=USD&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google Shopping&gad=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwl6OiBhA2EiwAuUwWZdwz28i8rthkGIRLHTSoLCzL_LV2McLxFbsdT2iAD7LpKtU6mT7xRRoCnXcQAvD_BwE

https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail...jmcfBKDJ9y90P4pTtApiQlwcMsNHEE7hoCdoIQAvD_BwE

Thank you so much for the resources! I'm beyond grateful. Have you found these medications more effective in fighting bumblefoot than baytril? (no rush to respond, I know you're busy). I realize I do have sulfatrim on hand!

 

[Razzlefrazzle]

Since she started the limp a few days ago, I've gone back to once every other day--if only so that we can keep an eye on it and re-do her bandages/dressings more frequently. Is that too much?

Every case is different so I would experiment and see what works best for your girl, but in my experience soaking is great for helping to loosen and remove scabs, but less so for healing.

Also, thanks for the vitamin A suggestion. What's a good source for getting that in her?

I think most leafy greens are high in Vitamin A so you could just add extra some extra veggies. I'm pretty lazy and also figure if my girls are deficient in one thing they may be deficient in something else so I tend to use poultry vitamins like rooster booster.


Also, I just noticed your girl has some long, curling toenails! (Happened to my girl with bumblefoot too because she stopped scratching normally.) I'd start trimming them back. The quick can start to grow out with the nail so it's best to trim little by little. Ideally you cut back close enough to the quick so it starts to shrink back, but not so close that you cut the quick and it bleeds (and bleeds and bleeds...)

 

[coach723]

Have you found these medications more effective in fighting bumblefoot than baytril?

I have used baytril on occasion. It works well for some things. The clindamycin and sulfa was choosen because those are the most common recommendations I could find for treating osteomyelitis, not for the bumblefoot itself. Antibiotics can sometimes help to treat a secondary infection from the digging around, but I haven't found them to be terribly helpful for the bumblefoot itself, which is usually staph. I don't have confirmation that he positively had osteomyelitis, and that was a few years ago, I just suspected it due to what I found in the foot and was at that point throwing everything at him. He was either going to get better or die, so what the heck, I was willing to try. I wish I'd taken pictures then, it was one really nasty case of bumblefoot. One day when he passes I will probably look at the bones in his feet to see if there are any abnormalities at that time.

 

[buffy-the-eggpile-layer]

Every case is different so I would experiment and see what works best for your girl, but in my experience soaking is great for helping to loosen and remove scabs, but less so for healing.


I think most leafy greens are high in Vitamin A so you could just add extra some extra veggies. I'm pretty lazy and also figure if my girls are deficient in one thing they may be deficient in something else so I tend to use poultry vitamins like rooster booster.


Also, I just noticed your girl has some long, curling toenails! (Happened to my girl with bumblefoot too because she stopped scratching normally.) I'd start trimming them back. The quick can start to grow out with the nail so it's best to trim little by little. Ideally you cut back close enough to the quick so it starts to shrink back, but not so close that you cut the quick and it bleeds (and bleeds and bleeds...)

Thanks for the pointers! I will up the vitamin A and work on trimming her talons. I scarred myself by cutting the quick once and it's been hard to work up the courage to try again (you are right about the bleeding... it's nuts!).

Also, I want to thank you for the corn pad idea. I found the perfect size at the store today and just tried it out on her. I put the corn pads on first and then put a little square of gauze with ointments on it in middle (so the ointment is in the hole) and secured it with medical tape. Then I bandaged her with vetwrap to hold everything in place. It may be way too early to tell, but she already seems to be walking better. I even saw her roosting in the run right afterwards and preening with her girls (I hadn't seem her roost during the day at all since her limp--only at night). I think she was slowly getting better but this definitely is adding momentum to her recovery. So, I'm feeling hopeful.

Thanks again for all of your wonderful help

 

[buffy-the-eggpile-layer]

I have used baytril on occasion. It works well for some things. The clindamycin and sulfa was choosen because those are the most common recommendations I could find for treating osteomyelitis, not for the bumblefoot itself. Antibiotics can sometimes help to treat a secondary infection from the digging around, but I haven't found them to be terribly helpful for the bumblefoot itself, which is usually staph. I don't have confirmation that he positively had osteomyelitis, and that was a few years ago, I just suspected it due to what I found in the foot and was at that point throwing everything at him. He was either going to get better or die, so what the heck, I was willing to try. I wish I'd taken pictures then, it was one really nasty case of bumblefoot. One day when he passes I will probably look at the bones in his feet to see if there are any abnormalities at that time.

Baytril has been my go-to for reproductive issues. At least so far, it seems to be the only thing that really knocks infections like EYP out. I'm not sure if it's the baytril or time/healing, but Dru is doing better. The corn pad also seems to have provided instant relief.

I appreciate you sharing your rationale. I'm extra fearful of osteomyelitis setting in for Dru, since she's been dealing with chronic bumblefoot infections all her life. When I saw the limping, my stomach dropped. Do you know what the symptoms of osteomyelitis are?
I'd be curious to know what your rooster's bones look like, too; and if, in fact, your treatment helped mitigate an existent osteomyelitis infection. He sounds like quite the comback kid--no doubt with your amazing help.

 

[coach723]

I think the only way to confirm osteomyelitis would be with x rays and cultures. Symptoms would be similar to severe bumblefoot, lameness, lethargy, not eating etc. Like many, I don't have access to a vet that will see chickens, and probably wouldn't be able to spend that kind of $$ if I did. With the exception of badly broken bones, most of what happens to them I am able to deal with on my own, and if it's something I can't, they are likely not liable to make it even with treatment, since so many of the common things don't have good treatment options anyway.
This article discusses it in birds:
https://www.vetfolio.com/learn/article/top-ten-orthopedic-diseases
This one has some pictures of bones that are affected:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119321534#fig3

 

[WingsysRoost]

I've successfully treated very severe, stubborn bumblefoot infection (including infections with no visible core or with a poorly defined core) with essential oils. I use a mix of 42 drops fractionated coconut oil (the kind that stays liquid all the time), 7 drops tea tree essential oil, 7 drops lavender essential oil, and 7 drops oregano essential oil. I pick up the chicken, spread the mixture on the foot, and let them go again.

For severe infection, I try to treat 2 or 3 times per day, but I've seen amazing progress even with treatment once per day. In warm weather, I will add in an Epsom salt soak every few days to help push infection out.

Also, I second the suggestion to trim her nails. I have one chicken with nails that grow long very quickly and I think trimming them helped. Does she have pockets of skin under her toes? I have a few with those, and I learned that I have to check to make sure there is no mud or anything else packed inside the pockets because that often sets at least one of my girls on the path to getting an infection.

Best of luck and I hope she recovers quickly!

 

[buffy-the-eggpile-layer]

I've successfully treated very severe, stubborn bumblefoot infection (including infections with no visible core or with a poorly defined core) with essential oils. I use a mix of 42 drops fractionated coconut oil (the kind that stays liquid all the time), 7 drops tea tree essential oil, 7 drops lavender essential oil, and 7 drops oregano essential oil. I pick up the chicken, spread the mixture on the foot, and let them go again.

For severe infection, I try to treat 2 or 3 times per day, but I've seen amazing progress even with treatment once per day. In warm weather, I will add in an Epsom salt soak every few days to help push infection out.

Also, I second the suggestion to trim her nails. I have one chicken with nails that grow long very quickly and I think trimming them helped. Does she have pockets of skin under her toes? I have a few with those, and I learned that I have to check to make sure there is no mud or anything else packed inside the pockets because that often sets at least one of my girls on the path to getting an infection.

Best of luck and I hope she recovers quickly!

so you use essential oils with no bandages needed? I may try that--especially for early stages when padding doesn't seem necessary. Are the amounts you noted per each foot or does it make a large amount I can use multiple times?

I agree that I need to drum up the courage to trim her nails. I'll give her a manicure her next spa day (a very conservative one that will hopefully not hit the quick!). She thankfully does not get muck in the pockets of skin on her feet--at least, nothing too bad that we aren't able to easily remove. I'll definitely keep checking on that.

Thanks so much for your kind and informative response!