The American Cemani Breeders Club...open forum

[Randy2010]

I am getting black mouths and grayish to blackish colors tongues now in that same line by crossing my GFF rooster over my Toni hens. Not culling these as hard yet until I see if it is helping with other issues.

 

[bluenkimchi]

I see, thank you, you two, for your answers. Every line is just going to have to be worked on and some are far more along, while other or way behind.

I don't have a pure, so i'll just work with my cross for fun/personal uses

In fact, I only intend them for a black meat carcass bird, nothing more.

Have fun with what you guys are doing and remember to share lots of pictures

 

[Steadfast]

All of the lines have their issues, Toni's, GFF, and Mike's. I have culled a few worse looking birds myself from Toni's line. And also, I have seen two different pictures from two different people that their GFF cockerel's are getting silver in their necks. So my point is, all of the lines have their issues and it's up to us to fix these issues and it is going to take us all working together that want to get these birds to be as black and as good as we can. It can be done with lots of culling and breeding the best to the best. Some lines may take longer and then again it may happen faster than we think.

I agree with you.
This is what I have been trying to say all along. Every line is important and needs to be worked with to bring things to black. We can not afford to loose any genetic Cemani lines because there are so few of them.

I am also encouraged by GFF progress over the last 2 years, that these improvements will come sooner than later.

Thank you Randy.

BTW: I think I remember you saying in a conversation that you used mike's line to fix some problems which cropped up in your breeding program. Was I mistaken?

 

[DCchicken]

So we know we have the following Ayam Cemani legally imported lines in the U.S.: Toni Marie Astin, Greenfire Farms (2 imports), and Jordan Farms.

Has anyone with all three of the lines crossed them? If so, what flaws did you find that cropped up with the cross?

The reason I ask is that I am in the process of importing a new unrelated Ayam Cemani line and I am trying to decide whether or not I should cross it with my Toni-Marie Astin line or maintain it as a separate line. So much work has gone into improving my Toni-Marie Astin line that I would hate to take a huge step backwards as a whole new genetic base could highlight flaws that are now hidden.

I do have plans to cross my Greenfire Svart Hona with my unrelated Svart Hona original import hen. But Svart Hona are landrace so that should be less of an issue as long as both have very deep pigmentation already.

 

[Steadfast]

We also have Smithsonian line and Mikes line. That makes 5 lines imported from Indonesia.

 

[DCchicken]

I do not include Mike's line as they are hybrid and not original imports. If hybrid lines are inclyded in the list then we woukd have to include the California line that was made using Silkies, or the Ogye line thatas smuggled in.

There are only three legal pure lines. Back to my question: Has anyone that owns all three crossed them?

 

[Randy2010]

Well with Toni's lines I have had the following issues.

White toes either one or more which I culled all at hatch that are not all black.
White under neck or tips of wings which I have culled all at hatch.
Then I have some with normal color skin that were also all culled.

With the pullets that I have kept, around 20, no issues except not black in their mouths or their tongues, but most likely will cull most of them.

So I decided to cross my Toni line of hens with my GFF rooster and I am already getting chicks with the black in their mouths like I said earlier with either grayish to blackish tongues already. So I'm hoping that the cross is going to help some of the other issues that I am having with this line.

 

[boykin2010]

I also don't think people should underestimate the value of a Svart Hona outcross to bring in new blood for Cemani if needed. In some cases, the two are so similar depending upon lines that if you crossed to a Svart and back to a Cemani - most people would feel comfortable calling them pure cemani.

 

[Randy2010]

I also don't think people should underestimate the value of a Svart Hona outcross to bring in new blood for Cemani if needed. In some cases, the two are so similar depending upon lines that if you crossed to a Svart and back to a Cemani - most people would feel comfortable calling them pure cemani.

I have also started doing this cross with mine and waiting on eggs to hatch to see what the outcome will be. Which I will keep as a separate line and see how they turn out in the next few years.

 

[Randy2010]

I also want to put this out there, everyone isn't going to get the same issues with Toni's line, some will have less issues and some may even have more. Just cull what you don't like and keep the best and keep going from there. Like I said, I am already see great results with my cross of the two lines. I have to say also that the cross is giving me chicks that are even blacker at hatch with no white on any of their toes, which is a good sign also.