The IMPORTED ENGLISH Orpington Thread

[rebel yell]

Took my English Orp bantams to my friend tonight who is a judge. She did not like them because they aren't in the standard. She asked me why I got them. I told her I liked a challenge. I have 10 to choose from. I'm planning on keeping 2 trios. At what age can I start to make selections on type? These guys seem very slow growing compared to other breeds I've raised.

Also, what in the status of them being accepted into the standard? Is there anybody working on that?

Most judges don't like these birds, just to here the words "Imported English Orpington" makes most of them angry, If you will notice I said MOST not all.
These birds are such a challenge to breed because they don't hit maturity until about 18 months there for making it very difficult to pick out keepers in the early stage, they change so much in there youth it is hard to make a choice on which ones to keep. As for them being accepted in the standard I don't know what the status is on that, most imported breeders like myself breed toward the English std. that's why they got the birds, that's what they like & that's what they breed for, If a person wants a bird fitting the American std. why get into the imported lines ?

 

[thedragonlady]

Most judges don't like these birds, just to here the words "Imported English Orpington" makes most of them angry, If you will notice I said MOST not all.
These birds are such a challenge to breed because they don't hit maturity until about 18 months there for making it very difficult to pick out keepers in the early stage, they change so much in there youth it is hard to make a choice on which ones to keep. As for them being accepted in the standard I don't know what the status is on that, most imported breeders like myself breed toward the English std. that's why they got the birds, that's what they like & that's what they breed for, If a person wants a bird fitting the American std. why get into the imported lines ?

Roger,

As you know, there is a huge difference in Orps that fit the English Standard , and what is winning over there currently. Our two standards are almost identical. Since our US Orps originated in England , it only makes sense to use them to improve US lines.

This whole controversy reminds me of what happened in Cocker Spaniels years ago. You used to be able to register pups in a litter either as English, or American , depending on how they looked. We, in the US, have bred Cockers with much more hair, so much that the dogs are impractical in the field. The British have kept a true sporting dog with a slightly different head , and in order to be designated a full Champion in the UK , a sporting dog must pass field tests. The Kennel Club in England put out a warning to American Cocker breeders telling them that the breed was going to be relegated to the toy group, as none were passing field tests. Cockers over there are now clipped down for their fiels tests, and certainly do not resemble what they looked like in the show ring.

It's all very well to admire those Orps currently winning in England with fluff trailing on the ground.The good breeders are now trying to clean that up, as it simply is not practical in anything but an ornamental bird. Orps on both sides of the pond are supposed to be dual purpose birds.

 

[aveca]

Took my English Orp bantams to my friend tonight who is a judge. She did not like them because they aren't in the standard. She asked me why I got them. I told her I liked a challenge. I have 10 to choose from. I'm planning on keeping 2 trios. At what age can I start to make selections on type? These guys seem very slow growing compared to other breeds I've raised.

Also, what in the status of them being accepted into the standard? Is there anybody working on that?

I think what your Judge friend means is birds like partridge or jublilee, or gold laced are not admitted into the standard yet..Am I correct? the colors that are included at this time are white, buff blue, and black..Im assuming you might have a color that is different than those standard colors that you showed her? what colors are you showing her?

It is a lot of work and it takes quite a few people interested and out showing them to get them inducted..but if your willing to put in the work, it can be done ..example, splash orp is a by product of blue yet they are not included in standard either..but a few people are trying to get them included..You can show the off colors as AOV means any other variety..but you cannot be included for championship awards. Im just assuming that she means the color not the style..

Type is so very important to orpingtons..the judges will deduct points for underfluff , or tail not quite in yet as English develop more slowley, or in the case of judging some American standards maybe too shallow chest or bad wing carriage..so the judges are very savy and know how to figure their points..most are there to help the breed altogether, they will do whats right..the featherof an orpington cannot be too loose, but it also cannot be too tight like a Cornish..so its a balancing act.

Several people are working to improve American standards using imports..some of the varietys fell to critical levels, near extinct..poor management? just loss of interest? not sure.....I think its mostly that people left the farms to go work for corps..

 

[rebel yell]

Well most of us got the imports because we like the fluff we like the wideness we like the whole bird is my openion, if I wanted the American bird belive me I would have them, I did not get the imports to make them into the tall skinny narrow backed so called Orps. that they are, This is my openion & I will keep my openion, I like the imports & I will keep only imports they are not an American bird on my place & never will be as far as Orps. go, I am here to defend, breed, & raise the imported birds, so it all boils down to this, breed & raise what you are happy with, make your self happy not some judge or anyone else I don't care if I ever win or place in another show as long as I live as long as I'm happy with my line of birds, I'm satisfied, Oh & by the I'm finely gona get to get back to sweet home ALABAMA soon so Julie you will be having a neighbor soon, I'm coming home.

 

[thedragonlady]

Well most of us got the imports because we like the fluff we like the wideness we like the whole bird is my openion, if I wanted the American bird belive me I would have them, I did not get the imports to make them into the tall skinny narrow backed so called Orps. that they are, This is my openion & I will keep my openion, I like the imports & I will keep only imports they are not an American bird on my place & never will be as far as Orps. go, I am here to defend, breed, & raise the imported birds, so it all boils down to this, breed & raise what you are happy with, make your self happy not some judge or anyone else I don't care if I ever win or place in another show as long as I live as long as I'm happy with my line of birds, I'm satisfied, Oh & by the I'm finely gona get to get back to sweet home ALABAMA soon so Julie you will be having a neighbor soon, I'm coming home.

On your way home to Alabama, Roger, stop by here. No tall, skinny, narrow backed Orps here.

 

[rebel yell]

On your way home to Alabama, Roger, stop by here. No tall, skinny, narrow backed Orps here.

I will do my best gal.

 

[aveca]

Well most of us got the imports because we like the fluff we like the wideness we like the whole bird is my openion, if I wanted the American bird belive me I would have them, I did not get the imports to make them into the tall skinny narrow backed so called Orps. that they are, This is my openion & I will keep my openion, I like the imports & I will keep only imports they are not an American bird on my place & never will be as far as Orps. go, I am here to defend, breed, & raise the imported birds, so it all boils down to this, breed & raise what you are happy with, make your self happy not some judge or anyone else I don't care if I ever win or place in another show as long as I live as long as I'm happy with my line of birds, I'm satisfied, Oh & by the I'm finely gona get to get back to sweet home ALABAMA soon so Julie you will be having a neighbor soon, I'm coming home.

I tend to agree with you Roger..type..there has to be some fluff or it isn't an orpington it becomes a rock or something else..you cant fool the eye..the type is big,and wide , deep chested, meant to feed a group not used as a toothpick...you never could fool my eyes either..

I think her judge may have been referring to a standard color like gold laced isn't included in standard..not the fluff..most of the judges are very fair.

 

[JHorn91180]

Hey guys. Its been very busy and so hot here. I wanted to add a few pics and see what u guys think. Here is an update on my LF chocolate project. This guys father was a black split roo who was an 8th bantam and mother was a quarter bantam chocolate. Everyone meet the Count. To make it easy lets just say he is a lil more then 75% LF but 100% English blood. He is 8 months old now and just becoming sexually mature. He will b bred over pure english black LF hens for the next generation. At least this one will be sex linked LOL. I have worked very long and hard at breeding these up to LF and plan to stick with my project adding in new blood as I go rather then buy LF chocolates. I like knowing the background. This year the hens I am using r no relation to this roo. This is one of many projects I am doing with the imported orps and will update info on others as I have time. Everyone please meet The Count. He was the only one to make the cull.

 

[BantyChickenLuv]

I tend to agree with you Roger..type..there has to be some fluff or it isn't an orpington it becomes a rock or something else..you cant fool the eye..the type is big,and wide , deep chested, meant to feed a group not used as a toothpick...you never could fool my eyes either..

I think her judge may have been referring to a standard color like gold laced isn't included in standard..not the fluff..most of the judges are very fair.

Yes, she did not like them because of the color. This judge is certainly one of the nicest, most willing to explain judges I have ever met. She has been dealing wih poultry her entire life, her dad was very well known. They are chocolate bantams. I knew what I was getting into when I purchased these birds. I wanted the imports. I could have gotten American Orps but I did not want them. I'm not saying I don't like them because they aren't in the standard. I just wanted to know if anyone was working on getting them accepted into the American standard. I would love to be able to help if I could if somebody was working on that. I am a youth exhibitor, this is my third year with poultry. I just want to learn as much as I can about these birds.

 

[aveca]

Yes, she did not like them because of the color. This judge is certainly one of the nicest, most willing to explain judges I have ever met. She has been dealing wih poultry her entire life, her dad was very well known. They are chocolate bantams. I knew what I was getting into when I purchased these birds. I wanted the imports. I could have gotten American Orps but I did not want them. I'm not saying I don't like them because they aren't in the standard. I just wanted to know if anyone was working on getting them accepted into the American standard. I would love to be able to help if I could if somebody was working on that. I am a youth exhibitor, this is my third year with poultry. I just want to learn as much as I can about these birds.

I believe several people are working on this..there is a bantam orp thread in here..if you ask the question in that thread..I think they were discussing it a while ago..

The judge sounds like a good person who just wants the best for you ..but I like those round English birds too..nothing wrong with it..I keep both..some English and some standards..when you find a really good one of either kind ..they are worth their weight in gold..I wont pic a favorite..I just like really good birds