The tiny serama; a Hatching adventure

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

OK welcome to fluffy's many rounds of hatching paranoia. Any and all hatching advice is hugely appreciated. Some questions to start it off. 1. When storing eggs, pointy side...? 2. When setting, pointy side down, but when putting them into lockdown, which way should I put the pointy side, down again? Last time I just set them on the hatching try, this time I'd like to try Pipd's way of putting them in a plastic egg carton, if I can find one. 3. Being that these guys are bantams, serama no less, do I need to candle on a different day? Actually, scratch that. Is candling them at all going to decrease the hatch rate by a 0.0000 something percent?

Pointy side down for storage, pointy side downward for incubation. My incubators' turners hold the eggs with the pointy end directed downward, but they're kind of on their sides and tilt back and forth. A lot of people incubate them on their sides without issue as well, though, so I wouldn't sweat it too much if you have an incubator where they lay on their sides.

For lock down in cartons, I put them pointy side downward, but sort of angle the eggs in the carton so that the dip that forms in the air cell during development is upward.

Here's a diagram to show what I mean by the dip that forms in the air cell:



So basically, they're sitting in the carton like this (complete with badly drawn carton )

The reason I do this is because the external pip should occur in that dip in the air cell (often even just below the dip as seen at day 18 because the air cell draws down further as baby gets into position and pushes up into the air cell just before the internal pip occurs). By leaning them, I feel that gives them a lot of room to pip without being hindered, and if they happen to be malpositioned then there are very few surfaces against the carton that would block them from pipping elsewhere as well. And then, thanks to the carton, babies that hatch first aren't playing football with their unhatched siblings and giving me gray hairs

As far as candling goes...

I candle a lot, but mostly only by putting my candler against the egg and not actually picking them up or touching them at all with my hands. I have never noticed any kind of reduction in hatch rate as a result of peeking so much. I would doubt that candling them extra would harm your eggs, either, as long as you're careful about it and don't drop your candler or the incubator lid on them or something.

Days 7, 14, and 18, I take the eggs out of the incubator and to a dark room where I can candle and mark the air cells. In this case, I will wash my hands thoroughly, then pick them up one by one and carefully mark the edge of the air cell with pencil while candling them. Days 7 and 14, they go back in the turners to warm back up and get back to developing. Day 18, they go to my lock down incubator in the cartons instead. These are the only times I touch the eggs at all after they enter the incubator unless someone gets stuck during hatch and needs a little bit of help.

I would still candle on days 7 and 14 for serama eggs just to check up on them, but maybe day 16 or 17 for the third candling instead of 18 since they can hatch early. Turning eggs is only vital for the first 14 days or so, so locking them down a day or two early should not hurt them.

 

[fluffycrow]

Here are my thoughts:
1. Store pointy side down, giving a gently twist once a day and then alternating which end of the carton is propped up twice / day, store 55 to 60 deg, I hatched 2 1/2 to 3 wk old eggs like this.
2. My last hatch I had incubated pointy side down, I laid all eggs on their sides except the shipped eggs at lockdown, I put them in the cartons. I had one of mine not hatch and 1 shipped egg not hatch and 1 shipped egg pip the wrong end. So, I've done both, I think I will do the same again, local and my eggs will be laid down, shipped eggs in a carton. With the bantam eggs, you can get a happy medium as you can set them upright but a bit reclined. Have the lowest point of the air cell facing up. 3. In my limited experience the bantams can hatch early so that would point to quick development. I don't know of if it would harm them. I've stopped candling, like picking them up and candling, until D7, and even then, if I can touch a flashlight to the top of the egg and easily see growth, I don't pick it up. I don't know if this makes any difference but I'm really worried about harming the embryos. If I'm unsure on an egg, I'm still picking it up and gently taking a better look.

Thank you! I candled with the Tsouloufates, but with the last broody batch I only candled three, and all but one hatched, so I'm really worried it might hurt the embryo. Sounds good on the hatching position!

 

[fluffycrow]

Albeit a short stint with a RIR and 3 Speckled Sussex, I have stayed solely with silkies and trying to upgrade my flock to being the most beautiful yard ornaments I can have.

That said, I've seen Seramas at the poultry swap every year and became enamored with them. I have a local "friend" that raises them too. If I were EVER to get another breed around here, it would be Seramas.

Thank you for the tag and I look forward to drooling often.

So glad to hear you love serama! Glad to have you here!

 

[fluffycrow]

Pointy side down for storage, pointy side downward for incubation. My incubators' turners hold the eggs with the pointy end directed downward, but they're kind of on their sides and tilt back and forth. A lot of people incubate them on their sides without issue as well, though, so I wouldn't sweat it too much if you have an incubator where they lay on their sides.

For lock down in cartons, I put them pointy side downward, but sort of angle the eggs in the carton so that the dip that forms in the air cell during development is upward.

Here's a diagram to show what I mean by the dip that forms in the air cell:



So basically, they're sitting in the carton like this (complete with badly drawn carton )

View attachment 3769272

The reason I do this is because the external pip should occur in that dip in the air cell (often even just below the dip as seen at day 18 because the air cell draws down further as baby gets into position and pushes up into the air cell just before the internal pip occurs). By leaning them, I feel that gives them a lot of room to pip without being hindered, and if they happen to be malpositioned then there are very few surfaces against the carton that would block them from pipping elsewhere as well. And then, thanks to the carton, babies that hatch first aren't playing football with their unhatched siblings and giving me gray hairs

As far as candling goes...

I candle a lot, but mostly only by putting my candler against the egg and not actually picking them up or touching them at all with my hands. I have never noticed any kind of reduction in hatch rate as a result of peeking so much. I would doubt that candling them extra would harm your eggs, either, as long as you're careful about it and don't drop your candler or the incubator lid on them or something.

Days 7, 14, and 18, I take the eggs out of the incubator and to a dark room where I can candle and mark the air cells. In this case, I will wash my hands thoroughly, then pick them up one by one and carefully mark the edge of the air cell with pencil while candling them. Days 7 and 14, they go back in the turners to warm back up and get back to developing. Day 18, they go to my lock down incubator in the cartons instead. These are the only times I touch the eggs at all after they enter the incubator unless someone gets stuck during hatch and needs a little bit of help.

I would still candle on days 7 and 14 for serama eggs just to check up on them, but maybe day 16 or 17 for the third candling instead of 18 since they can hatch early. Turning eggs is only vital for the first 14 days or so, so locking them down a day or two early should not hurt them.

Thank you so much for all that information pipd! Placing them slightly tilted in the carton seems like a great plan, I really hope I can find some plastic ones, or maybe cover the paper ones in plastic wrap? I'll also be checking air cells more religiously with this batch, in my first it was more of a vague check. As you can see, I am WAY more anxious about this batch

 

[WoDia]

OK welcome to fluffy's many rounds of hatching paranoia. Any and all hatching advice is hugely appreciated. Some questions to start it off. 1. When storing eggs, pointy side...? 2. When setting, pointy side down, but when putting them into lockdown, which way should I put the pointy side, down again? Last time I just set them on the hatching try, this time I'd like to try Pipd's way of putting them in a plastic egg carton, if I can find one. 3. Being that these guys are bantams, serama no less, do I need to candle on a different day? Actually, scratch that. Is candling them at all going to decrease the hatch rate by a 0.0000 something percent?

Check out this website for the SCNA:
https://scnaonline.org/incubation-advice-from-our-breeders/

(I referred to this site when I first began my Serama journey and found it very helpful with easing my concerns)

I can ONLY give you ideas from the way I do things, Fluffy.

If 1 of my Serama girls is broody (I usually have 3-4 go broody around the same time, like right now), I let them incubate. But when I use the incubator, I lay the eggs on their sides with the small end slightly pointing down. I simulate what’s most natural to a hen doing it. I only hatch small clutches at any given time though (up to 6). I don’t candle very much at all (at 7 days, at 14 days, then once right before lockdown). I do also hand turn them. Your setup is going to be different, so I’m not sure any of my methods will apply. Concerning your question #2 above: when they go into lockdown, lay them on their sides. One more thing… be prepared to assist a hatchling, if you possibly get one that cannot hatch on its own. Seramas can be difficult to hatch. I have some that I did have to assist (and I do not take this lightly at all), or I would have lost them. The only way I knew that they were in trouble was that they were trying to hatch early. When the peeping became weaker, I made the choice to assist rather than let them pass. I’m so happy I helped them out, because they’re all doing wonderful… and my tiny Clovie is currently a mama herself to 1 chick. My early girl weighs 7.9 ounces. In my experience though, most of my Seramas hatch around days 20-21.

 

[BDutch]

1. Store pointy side down, giving a gently twist once a day and then alternating which end of the carton is propped up twice / day, store 55 to 60 deg, I hatched 2 1/2 to 3 wk old eggs like this.

Pointy side up is even better according to the chicken crack where this comes from:
Post in thread 'Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.'
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...rescued-chickens-thread.1502267/post-27551638

 

[fluffycrow]

Pointy side down for storage, pointy side downward for incubation. My incubators' turners hold the eggs with the pointy end directed downward, but they're kind of on their sides and tilt back and forth. A lot of people incubate them on their sides without issue as well, though, so I wouldn't sweat it too much if you have an incubator where they lay on their sides.

For lock down in cartons, I put them pointy side downward, but sort of angle the eggs in the carton so that the dip that forms in the air cell during development is upward.

Here's a diagram to show what I mean by the dip that forms in the air cell:



So basically, they're sitting in the carton like this (complete with badly drawn carton )

View attachment 3769272

The reason I do this is because the external pip should occur in that dip in the air cell (often even just below the dip as seen at day 18 because the air cell draws down further as baby gets into position and pushes up into the air cell just before the internal pip occurs). By leaning them, I feel that gives them a lot of room to pip without being hindered, and if they happen to be malpositioned then there are very few surfaces against the carton that would block them from pipping elsewhere as well. And then, thanks to the carton, babies that hatch first aren't playing football with their unhatched siblings and giving me gray hairs

As far as candling goes...

I candle a lot, but mostly only by putting my candler against the egg and not actually picking them up or touching them at all with my hands. I have never noticed any kind of reduction in hatch rate as a result of peeking so much. I would doubt that candling them extra would harm your eggs, either, as long as you're careful about it and don't drop your candler or the incubator lid on them or something.

Days 7, 14, and 18, I take the eggs out of the incubator and to a dark room where I can candle and mark the air cells. In this case, I will wash my hands thoroughly, then pick them up one by one and carefully mark the edge of the air cell with pencil while candling them. Days 7 and 14, they go back in the turners to warm back up and get back to developing. Day 18, they go to my lock down incubator in the cartons instead. These are the only times I touch the eggs at all after they enter the incubator unless someone gets stuck during hatch and needs a little bit of help.

I would still candle on days 7 and 14 for serama eggs just to check up on them, but maybe day 16 or 17 for the third candling instead of 18 since they can hatch early. Turning eggs is only vital for the first 14 days or so, so locking them down a day or two early should not hurt them.

Thank you so much for all that information pipd! Placing them slightly tilted in the carton seems like a great plan, I really hope I can find some plastic ones, or maybe cover the paper ones in plastic wrap? I'll also be checking air cells more religiously with this batch, in my first it was more of a vague check. As you can see, I am WAY more anxious about this batch

edit: I thought I posted this. Apologies

 

[BDutch]

Here are my thoughts:
1. Store pointy side down, giving a gently twist once a day and then alternating which end of the carton is propped up twice / day, store 55 to 60 deg, I hatched 2 1/2 to 3 wk old eggs like this.
2. My last hatch I had incubated pointy side down, I laid all eggs on their sides except the shipped eggs at lockdown, I put them in the cartons. I had one of mine not hatch and 1 shipped egg not hatch and 1 shipped egg pip the wrong end. So, I've done both, I think I will do the same again, local and my eggs will be laid down, shipped eggs in a carton. With the bantam eggs, you can get a happy medium as you can set them upright but a bit reclined. Have the lowest point of the air cell facing up. 3. In my limited experience the bantams can hatch early so that would point to quick development. I don't know of if it would harm them. I've stopped candling, like picking them up and candling, until D7, and even then, if I can touch a flashlight to the top of the egg and easily see growth, I don't pick it up. I don't know if this makes any difference but I'm really worried about harming the embryos. If I'm unsure on an egg, I'm still picking it up and gently taking a better look.

I like to have a look once at day 6, of 7.
And discard the ones that didn’t develop. Im not much afraid for explosions but I am curious and Its easier for a bantam broody to keep 4-5 eggs warm than 6-7 or more.
I have a special torch with a cap and look in the evening (in the dark) without taking the eggs inside. The eggs are numbered to keep track and they get a mark (+ = good, x = not okay, o= doubt) .

 

[SwampPrincessChick]

OK welcome to fluffy's many rounds of hatching paranoia. Any and all hatching advice is hugely appreciated. Some questions to start it off. 1. When storing eggs, pointy side...? 2. When setting, pointy side down, but when putting them into lockdown, which way should I put the pointy side, down again? Last time I just set them on the hatching try, this time I'd like to try Pipd's way of putting them in a plastic egg carton, if I can find one. 3. Being that these guys are bantams, serama no less, do I need to candle on a different day? Actually, scratch that. Is candling them at all going to decrease the hatch rate by a 0.0000 something percent?

Store eggs pointy side down. When in lockdown, the turner is taken out so they should be on their side at the bottom of the incubator. I doubt candling them every day is going to mess with the hatch rate－a broody hen gets off her eggs and has to go eat, drink, poop, and whatever else she does. During that time, the eggs are left without heat.

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

Thank you so much for all that information pipd! Placing them slightly tilted in the carton seems like a great plan, I really hope I can find some plastic ones, or maybe cover the paper ones in plastic wrap? I'll also be checking air cells more religiously with this batch, in my first it was more of a vague check. As you can see, I am WAY more anxious about this batch

Hopefully you can figure something out for the egg carton! If not, I'm sure they'll do fine without it as well.

Deep breaths You've got this!


And no worries about the double post! I had one save in another thread that I had already posted and I nearly did the same thing. Glitches!

Check out this website for the SCNA:
https://scnaonline.org/incubation-advice-from-our-breeders/

(I referred to this site when I first began my Serama journey and found it very helpful with easing my concerns)

I can ONLY give you ideas from the way I do things, Fluffy.

If 1 of my Serama girls is broody (I usually have 3-4 go broody around the same time, like right now), I let them incubate. But when I use the incubator, I lay the eggs on their sides with the small end slightly pointing down. I simulate what’s most natural to a hen doing it. I only hatch small clutches at any given time though (up to 6). I don’t candle very much at all (at 7 days, at 14 days, then once right before lockdown). I do also hand turn them. Your setup is going to be different, so I’m not sure any of my methods will apply. Concerning your question #2 above: when they go into lockdown, lay them on their sides. One more thing… be prepared to assist a hatchling, if you possibly get one that cannot hatch on its own. Seramas can be difficult to hatch. I have some that I did have to assist (and I do not take this lightly at all), or I would have lost them. The only way I knew that they were in trouble was that they were trying to hatch early. When the peeping became weaker, I made the choice to assist rather than let them pass. I’m so happy I helped them out, because they’re all doing wonderful… and my tiny Clovie is currently a mama herself to 1 chick. My early girl weighs 7.9 ounces. In my experience though, most of my Seramas hatch around days 20-21.

Interesting to see the differences specific to Seramas from someone who actually raises them! I've never had the breed, just read about them, so I can only advise on incubation in general, of course.

I also had to comment because I clicked your link and was surprised to see the name of the person I got my very first group of silkied Cochins from on that page!