Thoughts and Observations on Protein

Protein is part of the equation, as is nutritional profile (amino acids and such), age, breed, and, in fact, light.

There is a pineal gland on a chicken’s head that senses light- increasing light after the winter solstice on Dec 22, and decreasing light after the summer solstice on Jun 22. This tells them to molt and lower/stop production.

Protein benefits the flock, but amino acids profile, vitamins, and calcium content also matter. A flock is often more agreeable/calm when protein is increased bc their needs are met. We’ve seen this in our flock when we were learning the ropes, and went to a 20% all flock - there was less fighting around the food dish (food always available), and less pecking order issues, they resolved faster anyway.

Breed and age: high production layers are in a class of their own. Heritage breeds will produce less per year bc they aren’t high production, but often have a larger body to maintain. You will find that if you always get new spring chicks you will usually have eggs through the winter bc under a year old, they typically lay through their first winter without a big molt.

We use a light on a timer in the coop. This helps, but on its own does not keep production up. The biggest benefit seems to be that we still get some eggs in the winter- production is there, but less. One winter it was heavily overcast for weeks, and we got zero eggs for weeks. We had light in the coop, but only for a few morning hours, since usually the sun is out, or it’s not so gloomy, for them. But, it wasn’t enough light due to the gloom. So, now we have lights on for a longer stretch of the day in winter, and we get some eggs. However, the majority of eggs come from our young high production layers. Every spring we buy HP chicks. They begin to lay before fall, and lay through the winter. The young heritage breed chicks often slow down or stop laying for awhile in the winter, while the HP ones (same age) do not stop.

There is another factor too. Once we bought chicks from an exhibition line. They were leghorns. Hard to overstate how beautiful and gorgeous they were, both M and F. But, they had been selected for beauty and conformation to the APA standard and were terrible layers that took forever, plus a day, to even begin to lay. So, genetics were not selected for egg laying, and it was obvious.
 
Protein benefits the flock, but amino acids profile, vitamins, and calcium content also matter. A flock is often more agreeable/calm when protein is increased bc their needs are met. We’ve seen this in our flock when we were learning the ropes, and went to a 20% all flock - there was less fighting around the food dish (food always available), and less pecking order issues, they resolved faster anyway.
I noticed this too with my flock. Two big things made me switch, one being the mild molt some were going through and the other being that I kept noticing one pullet in particular pecking at others and eating their feathers. Once they were onto the current 22% feed the pecking/feather eating stopped completely. I may switch to something different for spring/summer but only because it'd be easier on my wallet. the nutrition profile looks good but part of me thinks I should just keep feeding what I'm feeding. Is that a better idea than switching feeds for different times of the year?
 
particular pecking at others and eating their feathers. Once they were onto the current 22% feed the pecking/feather eating stopped completely.
Yes, a sign of not enough protein is feather picking. Increasing the protein in their feed was the right thing to do. You can drop down to 20% in the warmer months if you want-and if feather picking begins, then you’ll know they need the higher protein. It is common to switch up feeds based on a particular need. Stick with proper poultry feed, and it is formulated with the right poultry profile of vitamins, minerals etc, for basic health,
 
Any thoughts on what would cause the excess bloom or what I'm assuming is excess bloom in most of my eggs? Basically a heavier white film. Seems like they didn't do this when on layer feed although also not sure if it's due to different laying habits in the winter or what. Everyone on a FB group kept saying to someone else with similar looking eggs it was excess calcium. I've also picked up on how much weird mis-info is perpetuated on those groups constantly...
Oh yes, there's definitely a lot of misinformation in facebook groups, and a lot of drama and rudeness, too. I mostly stay away from them. People on here are so much nicer!

I imagine people are confusing the pale film with the pale bumps which can also show up on eggs sometimes, and which are indeed a buildup of calcium. But the bloom is not, the bloom is mostly protein. The heaviness or visible qualities of the bloom can probably vary depending on the protein in the hen's diet - if she isn't getting enough, she'll probably prioritize and use the protein in other places, leaving less for the bloom, and if she has plenty, she'll be able to make a heavier bloom.
 
I am one of the All Flock/Flock Raiser all the time, fresh clean water, oyster shell in seperate dish on the side tpyes. I've read a LOT of studies, linked quite a few of them here. I'm convinced by the research.

Thats my bias.

Having said that, once you meet the minimums, increasing protein has rapidly declining benefits, which rapidly become too small to be measured in the typical back yard flock. Example - one study compared a 16% protein feed with a 20% protein feed of nearly identical amino acid profile (because both the amount and quality of the protein matter - not all protein is the same). End result?? Slightly lower mortality over the study period, slightly greater egg weight, slightly greater rate of lay. How slight? 1-3% typically. That's the difference between an average 52g egg and an average 53g egg. You will never see it. A 200 egg a year hen might instead lay 204 eggs over the same year. There are other benefits - harder to measure and of lesser commercial importance - faster molts, better disease resistance, better behavior, etc not offset by the higher feed costs associated with greater crude protein amounts. The difference from 20% to 23 or 24% CP is even smaller.

The differences are much more noticeable when provided to hatchlings and adolescents, because those birds have grater amino acid needs, and benefit from a more nutritonally dense diet in their formative weeks and months

My general conclusion? Unless birds were previously fed something nutritionally deficient, a change in feed from a layer formulation to a 20% crude protein All Flock/Flock Raiser type is NOT generally accompanied by a sudden increase in rate of lay, reduced egg "errors" (new layers have an error rate MUCH higher than a one year old bird as they work the kinks out of their plumbing - by some studies, the error rate is 10x or more higher), or the like. Sudden changes generally result from other factors.
 
This makes me want to give high protein feed a try. I tried an egg layer formula with broilers and I can say with certainty that that was a disaster, the lack of protein caused profound issues due to the amino acid imbalance for such rapid growing birds. I have not tried giving broiler feed to egg layers. If not enough protein is super bad for broilers it does seem like it’s worth considering what the cost benefit analysis of giving broiler feed to layers could be…. Maybe just in the fall through molt or when there’s an uptick in behavior issues or any time a boost might be justifiable.
 
I tried an egg layer formula with broilers and I can say with certainty that that was a disaster, the lack of protein caused profound issues due to the amino acid imbalance for such rapid growing birds.
ABSOLUTELY true. Broilers are custom built for extreme growth rates - they need even more nutritionally dense feed than the typical hatchkling or adolescent to do their best.

And yes, there are posters here who will sometimes boost" their normal feed by mixing with a bit of Broiler feed, Game Bird Grower, or Turkey Feed (depending on what's locallly available - the name on the bag doesn't matter, only the mill ate and the guaranteed nutritional label) to bring up crude protein and (sometimes) alter the AA profile - a good broiler or game bird should have considerably more Methionine and Lysine than a Layer formulation.
 
This makes me want to give high protein feed a try. I tried an egg layer formula with broilers and I can say with certainty that that was a disaster, the lack of protein caused profound issues due to the amino acid imbalance for such rapid growing birds. I have not tried giving broiler feed to egg layers. If not enough protein is super bad for broilers it does seem like it’s worth considering what the cost benefit analysis of giving broiler feed to layers could be…. Maybe just in the fall through molt or when there’s an uptick in behavior issues or any time a boost might be justifiable.
Just feed them a 20% flock raiser type feed year round and you won't have to think about who needs boosting when.
 
Alright one other question for those who know more than me about this stuff. I decided to switch feeds to Bar Ale 18% layer (have not received it yet) it is a corn/soy free feed that's easier on my wallet than the Modesto chick feed. I don't care for corn free but again, easier on the wallet, and nutritionally seems pretty decent as well as lower fat which for my flock could be a good thing. Only red flag I see is Methionine is at .2 and the modesto had .4. Seems like a bare minimum level. On the other hand I do feed my flock a pretty fair amount of meat scraps. Think they'd be fine with that lower level?
 
As a general rule, Methionine levels of 0.3% are considered bare minimum for adult layers. Met needs are higher for hatchlings, adolescents, "meaties". Some modern studies recommend higher levels still, 0.32, 0.34. I know the differences seem small, but studies into methionine deficient diets often offer (and receive measurable results from) Met at levels of 0.25, 0.27, 0.28 (broilers).

Its considered so critical to a chicken's success that it can legally be supplemented with the synthetic, DL-Methionine in feeds bearing the "organic" label.

Meat scraps (assuming you mean raw or cooked meat) don't have enough "excess" Met to compensate for a base diet as deficient as 0.2% Met at any reasonable inclusion level of scraps.
 

New posts New threads Active threads

Back
Top Bottom