Topic of the Week - Dogs and Chickens

[mizjones]

This is an interesting thread. Thankyou for starting this discussion because my family has always had dogs (rescues) but the chicken thing is new for our current dogs. Livestock guard dogs are great if you can A) actually choose one with sound genetics, and B) can afford to pay for a dog with sound genetics. My sister has a beautiful great pyrenees who is absolutely worthless. So noble looking, perfect conformation, etc, but worthless as a livestock guard dog.

For us, choosing a livestock guard dog on purpose is not an option because it defeats the whole rescue thing. We currently have 5 dogs and we have never chosen them for anything other than rescue from an abuse/neglect situation. And none of them get to be around the chickens. They all failed Chickens 101 class miserably. The Yorkies won't s-h-u-t u-p, the Chihuahua thinks he can kill them (he's got issues), our big red retriever could care less if anything happens to them as long as he's got his ball, and the Carolina Dog wants to eat them--all of them.

 

[Little Fuzzy]

I love reading all of the great success stories with introducing chickens and dogs. My challenging pack of Schnauzers are learning but I still cant trust them. The girl is showing the most progress, she just stares at the birds, but there wasn't a fence between them it could result in disaster. When the chickens are free ranging in the back yard the dogs are only allowed out on leash. My dogs were all rescued as adults so I have realistic expectations that the dogs may never adapt to a peaceful existence with a flock. Schnauzers are very smart but very stubborn. They know what "Leave It" and "Come" means, they just choose to ignore me when its not what they want to do. A water bottle helps, coupled with a string "No". I'm hoping that as the chickens get bigger and the pecks to the nose get stronger, that they'll learn to leave the birds alone.

Schnauzers I think would be tough nuts to crack. I think they are in the terriers category right? They have high prey drives. I would think the Electronic collars would be your best bet with them.

 

[Beekissed]

Most chicken owners have a dog or two in addition to their flock. Some keep and train their dogs as livestock guardians or flock watchers, while others find they can't trust their dogs with their birds. Keeping these two species together can be done very successfully though. I would like to hear from all you dog and chicken owners what advice you have and what your experiences were when it comes to keeping dogs and chickens together, or at least in harmony. Specifically:

- How do you/did you train your dog(s) not to kill or mess with your chickens?
- What is the best/most effective way to deal with/retrain a dog that killed birds already? (No cruel or inappropriate suggestions, please… Let's keep this thread friendly and informative)
- Tell me about livestock guardian dogs (LGD's)
- Are some dog breeds more or less prone to be a problem around the flock?

Will have to respond to this statement first, as I just can't STAND LGD snobbery towards regular farm dogs~

Quote:
Despite what all those "experienced" dog people have told you, dogs kept in different environments react in different ways. A house dog that sleeps in the house all night but gets to roam in the yard in the day might want to play or investigate when they chase something.

Labs raised outdoors that have a job on the land most decidedly don't chase things to "play or investigate". The many dead animals my Labs have successfully killed on our land tells me a vastly different story....unless they just played with those predators so much that the predator just died of exhaustion.

My current Lab mix dog killed his first full grown coon at the age of 5 mo. and a full grown groundhog the following week. He's killed countless possum and coon since then in his life...I doubt he was playing with them. All were killed quickly and quietly, no visible injury on the body at all.

I've had Labs and Lab mix dogs guarding my animals and chickens since the late 90s and early 2000s now and I find them to be very serious about the job, they kill coon, possum, groundhog, rabbits and anything else that comes in their territory. The rest they keep at bay...we are surrounded by thousands of acres of woodland here, with all the major suspects all around us, with the only chickens in miles...and one old Lab/BC cross has protected my flocks from all of them for four years here. Including the black bears, the local coyote pack, the bobcats and the foxes. And that's in an open air coop with no considerations for predator proofing and pop doors left open at all times, in all seasons, with free range flocks.

I've had a Lab, GP/Lab mix, a GP and currently have an Anatolian/Maremma/GP mix pup working with my Lab/BC mix dog. Three of those dogs were obtained for free as adult dogs...free to good home situations. Those adult dogs didn't require any training at all. Two were obtained as pups at 2 mo. of age.

I've trained the two 2 mo. old pups(10 yrs apart) on chickens in that time and both of those dogs are currently working on guard for my flock, the LGD mix pup and the 10 yr old Lab/BC mix. Both were living side by side free ranging with free range chickens from the very first day they had contact with them. They both responded to the same kind of training in the same amount of time....approx. 20 min. total of training on chickens and they've both been completely reliable since then.

The training consisted of placing them in the situation where they are exposed to a very excited chicken and then I corrected them when they paid any attention to the bird. After I was getting the desired response, no looking at or paying any attention to the chicken, I left them alone together and monitored from the house. Watched what they did when around the excited chicken when they thought they were alone....then corrected any overt attention by the pup to the chicken, from the house.

No further problems.

I must add, though, that during and prior to the training on poultry, I established authority over both pups....that's the most important training tool you'll have. If you can't get them to come or stop something they are doing, you won't be able to train them on chickens. They MUST learn to obey you in all other areas if you will want them to obey you in the face of this prey animal and what challenges that presents to a pup. They must listen and respond to corrections consistently or you will get nowhere.

 

[Coykoi]

Schnauzers I think would be tough nuts to crack. I think they are in the terriers category right? They have high prey drives. I would think the Electronic collars would be your best bet with them.

Yes, they are, at least the minis. Two out of three have learned to respect the beaks, especially now that the birds can look them in the eye. Those two are actually pretty wary of the birds. They're still not allowed off leash around the birds, but we're making good progress. The third dog, on the other hand, is never going to arrive at a "live and let live" attitude. He gets pecked and he immediately lashes out. I tried a buzz/shock collar and got good results for a while but when he gets angry, all he sees is red.

 

[Beekissed]

Here's a pic of Mim's dog and chickens....she says these are the safest chickens in TX!

Her dog is an Anatolian Shepherd.

 

[bunsnpupsnchick]

Yes, they are, at least the minis. Two out of three have learned to respect the beaks, especially now that the birds can look them in the eye. Those two are actually pretty wary of the birds. They're still not allowed off leash around the birds, but we're making good progress. The third dog, on the other hand, is never going to arrive at a "live and let live" attitude. He gets pecked and he immediately lashes out. I tried a buzz/shock collar and got good results for a while but when he gets angry, all he sees is red.

I don't know if you did this based on your post. The buzz-shock collars require that you "load"them like you would a clicker. You first teach the dog what you want done when gets the buzz-tone. Once that's reliable during practice without the high distraction them you move up to higher distractions until you start working the problem. In some cases you might need to raise the level during the high drive periods. You absolutely need to have obedience down in general to get the dog thru the prey drive. The other option is to let the dog have a very negative experience before the drive really starts. With my Dane I had left his collar to loose so it dropped from the correct position so when I grab the remote to correct him I accidentally got the +2 button which raised the level & did the shock where I was wanting to do the tone. Well, he did the puppy yelp & no more interest in playing with the birds. All he was doing was starting to check them out, but I wanted him to ignore them completely. It worked, but I still feel bad even though he's fine. If you didn't load the collar & work up to higher distractions that might work.

 

[Lilki]

I think not only does it depend on the breed but the individual dog. We have a terrier mutt that will chase squirrels but leaves the cats and ducks alone. She is a very submissive dog though.

 

[Little Fuzzy]

I don't know if you did this based on your post. The buzz-shock collars require that you "load"them like you would a clicker. You first teach the dog what you want done when gets the buzz-tone. Once that's reliable during practice without the high distraction them you move up to higher distractions until you start working the problem. In some cases you might need to raise the level during the high drive periods. You absolutely need to have obedience down in general to get the dog thru the prey drive. The other option is to let the dog have a very negative experience before the drive really starts. With my Dane I had left his collar to loose so it dropped from the correct position so when I grab the remote to correct him I accidentally got the +2 button which raised the level & did the shock where I was wanting to do the tone. Well, he did the puppy yelp & no more interest in playing with the birds. All he was doing was starting to check them out, but I wanted him to ignore them completely. It worked, but I still feel bad even though he's fine. If you didn't load the collar & work up to higher distractions that might work.

I totally agree with this post. You need to condition the dog's brain to the collar for general obedience before trying to do a higher neg shock. Although I'm sure it would work if you shock them hard as they approach the chicken, just like they do for rattlesnake aversion training. But I don't want my dog afraid of the chicken, I want my dog to accept the chicken as part of the family pack, so conditioning and training is better. Also if the dog yelps it's not so much that it was hurt, but surprised, dogs don't understand electricity and so they are frightened of it. I shocked myself with the collar before putting it on my dog so I know how it feels.

 

[Johntodd]

I shocked myself with the collar before putting it on my dog so I know how it feels.

LOL!

 

[neophyte17]

How do you train a puppy to not only leave the chickens alone but also protect them? I have an anatolian sheperd who was just naturally good with them even though he was not introduced to chickens until he was an adult. Just got a saint bernard/bernese mountain dog mix pup and I am trying to teach her. Any suggestions?