White faced black Spanish enthusiasts, come hither!

[Dirt Farmer]

I think your McMurray male is a Minorca "which also explains his larger size". He should have more of a white face by this age. Even my 4 month old males had noticeable white in their faces. All your birds are outstanding looking by the way. Do you still have the info on the ebay seller by chance? I'd like to get some different blood into my flock in the near future. And breeders here in the Midwest are hard to find. Thanks much

I'll send some contact information in a PM for the Ebay seller. She told me her birds came from P. Allen Smith. The Murray McMurray male does have a dusting of white on the face. He wouldn't let me get a decent picture. I had an excellent trio once that was very slow to develop the face, so I'm holding out hope. They mention in the catalog to not expect much face before the first molt. Maybe its specific to their line? I'll upload a follow up picture as he matures.

 

[Gray Farms]

I'll send some contact information in a PM for the Ebay seller. She told me her birds came from P. Allen Smith. The Murray McMurray male does have a dusting of white on the face. He wouldn't let me get a decent picture. I had an excellent trio once that was very slow to develop the face, so I'm holding out hope. They mention in the catalog to not expect much face before the first molt. Maybe its specific to their line? I'll upload a follow up picture as he matures.

It must be "McMurray line specific". I wonder even if they are 100% Spanish, or if they have Minorca blood in them. Personally I don't have much faith in McMurray hatchery.

 

[Dirt Farmer]

Here are some updates on the WFBS. I lost the cockerel and one of the pullets that were from the very good local farm line to a coyote. Fortunately I was able to hatch 17 chicks in Apr from the original cock and hen, and his three daughters before it happened. I did sadly euthanize the older cock after breeding from him as he was psychotically aggressive and a liability. After the second time he bloodied me (and ripped a hole in my pants) I knew I couldn't keep him any longer. I've kept many cocks and always thought people complaining about aggressive one's just didn't know how to act around them. I stand corrected. (I've never kept a Mediterranean breed before; I think they run a little hot.)
Attached is a picture of the Murray McMurray cockerel's face development. He's about 10 months old now and weighs 5.5 lbs. I like his vigor and stance better than the cock I kept from the eBay line. The eBay cockerel has a better face, but carries his tail in a droopy manner most of the time. He's about 2 weeks younger, weighs about 4.75 pounds and is visibly narrower. I was hoping they would bring some size. I weighed the two largest hens from the local farm line and they're about 5.5 pounds. I could just wait to see what grows out of the April hatch but that would mean breeding back son to mother or brother to sister. I will not know for sure since I incubated all together. I'm looking for opinions. If my goal is to size up, is it better to just use the biggest MM cock on the local farm line hens; or wait and see what the April hatch grows out to preserve the better face? If I remember the older cock was slightly bigger, maybe 5.75 lbs.

 

[Gray Farms]

Line breeding or inbreeding won't hurt chickens for many, many, many, many, many generations. In fact it strengthens bloodline traits. So don't worry about that at all. I'll have to check the standard for weights "or you can if you have a copy" as I can't remember for sure. They are one of the largest Mediterranean breeds so I'd say the bigger the better. The standard does call for 5 points in the comb so there is that to remember when picking a rooster as well. I'd make two pens myself half your hens with each of these two roosters. Like you said one has a better face but the other has better body type. Then crossing the offspring of both roosters. Also if you plan on saving back birds for breeders hatch three time as many chicks as you want to keep back. For instance if you want to keep back 3 males and 7 females hatch 30 chicks at least. And 50 would be better.

 

[Dirt Farmer]

Thanks GF. I could develop a line based on your suggestion, keep a pure pen of the local line that I'm impressed with, and not have as much down time waiting for chickens to grow out from a single project. You're correct about numbers. Currently I have a two hens that are really special and the rest are all so-so or worse. I need to give myself more options. I'm focused on size right know. I think I'll only breed from the top half of each hatch with regard to size, and then get even more selective when I've built up to 12-14 breeders (the limit of my housing). The SoP for cockerel weight is 6.5 lbs and 8.0 lbs for a cock. Pullets should be 5.5 lbs and hens 6.5 lbs. Seems in all breeds the females are closer to standard than the males. Thanks again for replying.

 

[Gray Farms]

Glad to help. Nice birds you've got there by the way.

 

[chickinlittles]

Are there any WFBS peeps out there still?i got me first two and know one is a roo but not sure of the other. The one in question Clara belle had a significantly smaller yellowish comb but a long pointy tail
Salvador Dali on the other hand is all Roo with large red comb and waddles shown here at a bit over 8 weeks. They are both really sweet lap chickens and Dali really seems to take his flock responsibility seriously and started showing his girls where treats are and keeping everyone in line at a very early age. Clara Belle is more subdued . I heard 3 quiet crows coming from the coop about 3 days ago but didn’t actually see that it was Dali. Haven’t heard from him again since. I’m really hoping he’ll be in the quieter side as I’m not supposed to have Roos. I will try a collar on him if he gets loud and causes problems as long by as he stays sweet and good to his hens and keepers . So I thought I’d reach out and see if the long pointy tail could indicate a slower developing Roo. First pic is Dali. Second is Clara Belle Thx

 

[Gray Farms]

Are there any WFBS peeps out there still?i got me first two and know one is a roo but not sure of the other. The one in question Clara belle had a significantly smaller yellowish comb but a long pointy tail
Salvador Dali on the other hand is all Roo with large red comb and waddles shown here at a bit over 8 weeks. They are both really sweet lap chickens and Dali really seems to take his flock responsibility seriously and started showing his girls where treats are and keeping everyone in line at a very early age. Clara Belle is more subdued . I heard 3 quiet crows coming from the coop about 3 days ago but didn’t actually see that it was Dali. Haven’t heard from him again since. I’m really hoping he’ll be in the quieter side as I’m not supposed to have Roos. I will try a collar on him if he gets loud and causes problems as long by as he stays sweet and good to his hens and keepers . So I thought I’d reach out and see if the long pointy tail could indicate a slower developing Roo. First pic is Dali. Second is Clara Belle Thx

I'd say you do have a pair.

 

[chickinlittles]

I'd say you do have a pair.

That’s great here’s a pic I just took of them sitting together on my leg

 

[Dirt Farmer]

That’s great here’s a pic I just took of them sitting together on my leg

Clare Belle has rounded feather tips in her neck and saddle area. If you check Dali I'll bet his are more pointed. Usually a reliable way to tell males from females. Glad to see there are now three people in the world with an interest in WFBS. Your birds are more social than mine. I'll post some pictures of birds from last April's hatch in the next couple weeks. These birds of mine don't seem to get good type until about 18 months; but I have a couple pullets that I think will be nice. I'm down to one male. He's not bad. He has a red feather in his hackle but is on the larger side, which my flock needs badly.