Grazing in Florida

[HighlandRogue]

We have the typical grass in our Florida property that consists mostly of Bahiagrass. This stuff seeds quickly and will certainly be on my chickens menu. We also have Spanish Needle in abundance around the property and mostly along the fence line and around structure. Is this safe for my chickens to graze on? Or do I need to try and eradicate these wildflowers? I have read several articles and looked through responses but still can't find anything definitive. I can't find anything that says they are bad for people to consume but I want to protect my flock from any eventuality. Thanks for your help!

 

[BigBlueHen53]

I can't find anything specific about chickens and Spanish Needle, but those needle-like seeds would worry me a bit although my chickens do seem to avoid anything toxic. But the seeds apparently stick to everything: hair, fur, clothing and, presumably, feathers. The plants are invasive, tough, prolific and difficult to eradicate. Best advice is to pull them up while young, being sure to get the "long, tough taproot." Also, do not let them bloom or mow them or otherwise get rid of them before the flowers begin to wilt. This information is from the Gardening Knowhow website. Good luck! (Don't mow once they've gone to seed! )

 

[3KillerBs]

@U_Stormcrow is in Florida and is developing his Biodiverse Polyculture thread about the utility of various plants in his chicken ranging area.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I've been summoned! (This is not my area of expertise, but I learn quickly, and have reason to do so. More I'm a good researcher, and am motivated by need).

I assume you mean Bidens Pelosa? (with the forked seed pod that sticks to damn near everything, velcro like???) Its actually a forage (and not technically a grass) which used to be far more popular in the past than today - its mentioned by Laura Ingalls-Wilder in Little House on the Prarie, actually. Related to Asters, its an attractant for a number of beneficial insects, and quite successful at securing (and breaking up) the top inch or so of clay soils against runoff. Also somewhat shade tolerant, it likes rain, and is salt tolerant. The stems and leaves are NOT frost tolerant, but it takes a very hard freeze to kill the roots, not the sort of thing seen in Central and South FL, I fear. This is a pretty good data sheet on it.

I have some on my property at present, though not a lot - and removed a clump on the path from the RV to the outdoor shower earlier this week. I've flagged it mentally as a "Caution" plant which requires aggressive, but not immediate, management - because its hard to control once well established, not because of any toxicity concerns.

Anyhow, coming back to the original question. It USED to be a popular forage, and is particularly valued by horses. Cattle tend to ignore it, but will eat it cut. Some chickens love it, I've not noticed mine paying it much attention, but I have so little i may have overlooked their grazing it. I can confirm they do, occasionally, eat it - they just don't strip it bare. Same with the goats - like cattle, I assume they would eat it cut, but my goats prefer blackberry brambles over everything else I've offered them. Humans can eat it too, the flowers and also the very young leaves, raw - while older leaves and stems should be cooked.

Here are a few choice links regarding its use as forage (read this one) and/or cover crop. I can't find much information on its nutritional make-up - this is a link to a source I don't normally rely on (table 3) which indicates its actually, apart from the moderately high fat content, a better than typical chicken feed. It seems to be preferred early season, before the seed pods grow and harden off, while the plant is still tender.

Compared to other green leafies, a near 16% protein content (other sources put it as high as 24%, dried) is quite good, 7.5% fat is high but may be useful during the heat of late summer as calorie source, since it doesn't require metablic activity to process as a carbohydrate does, and its got a lot of fiber (and that's why its prefered by horses, or dried forage for cows and goats). The Methionine and Lysine numbers are in line with a chicken's needs, and the Tryptophan is high enough that this can compensate (in part) for other (low tryptophan) feed sources like corn. I've seen no threonine listing, that's a limiting amino acid in grains, so if your feed is mostly corn, wheat, barley, this won't fix that.

On the vitamin side, this is a really good source of calcium and vitamin C, and a worthless source of B vitamins.

I will say that the plant is also alleged to have numerous medicinal properties, but studies supporting same (as with many folk medicines) are remarkably sparse. And for good or ill, some of the compounds in this plant are strongly phototoxic, meaning they are dangerous in the presence of sunlight, so this isn't the sort of stuff you would normally want to rub on bare skin....

Hope that helps.

 

[HighlandRogue]

I've been summoned! (This is not my area of expertise, but I learn quickly, and have reason to do so. More I'm a good researcher, and am motivated by need).

I assume you mean Bidens Pelosa? (with the forked seed pod that sticks to damn near everything, velcro like???) Its actually a forage (and not technically a grass) which used to be far more popular in the past than today - its mentioned by Laura Ingalls-Wilder in Little House on the Prarie, actually. Related to Asters, its an attractant for a number of beneficial insects, and quite successful at securing (and breaking up) the top inch or so of clay soils against runoff. Also somewhat shade tolerant, it likes rain, and is salt tolerant. The stems and leaves are NOT frost tolerant, but it takes a very hard freeze to kill the roots, not the sort of thing seen in Central and South FL, I fear. This is a pretty good data sheet on it.

I have some on my property at present, though not a lot - and removed a clump on the path from the RV to the outdoor shower earlier this week. I've flagged it mentally as a "Caution" plant which requires aggressive, but not immediate, management - because its hard to control once well established, not because of any toxicity concerns.

Anyhow, coming back to the original question. It USED to be a popular forage, and is particularly valued by horses. Cattle tend to ignore it, but will eat it cut. Some chickens love it, I've not noticed mine paying it much attention, but I have so little i may have overlooked their grazing it. I can confirm they do, occasionally, eat it - they just don't strip it bare. Same with the goats - like cattle, I assume they would eat it cut, but my goats prefer blackberry brambles over everything else I've offered them. Humans can eat it too, the flowers and also the very young leaves, raw - while older leaves and stems should be cooked.

Here are a few choice links regarding its use as forage (read this one) and/or cover crop. I can't find much information on its nutritional make-up - this is a link to a source I don't normally rely on (table 3) which indicates its actually, apart from the moderately high fat content, a better than typical chicken feed. It seems to be preferred early season, before the seed pods grow and harden off, while the plant is still tender.

Compared to other green leafies, a near 16% protein content (other sources put it as high as 24%, dried) is quite good, 7.5% fat is high but may be useful during the heat of late summer as calorie source, since it doesn't require metablic activity to process as a carbohydrate does, and its got a lot of fiber (and that's why its prefered by horses, or dried forage for cows and goats). The Methionine and Lysine numbers are in line with a chicken's needs, and the Tryptophan is high enough that this can compensate (in part) for other (low tryptophan) feed sources like corn. I've seen no threonine listing, that's a limiting amino acid in grains, so if your feed is mostly corn, wheat, barley, this won't fix that.

On the vitamin side, this is a really good source of calcium and vitamin C, and a worthless source of B vitamins.

I will say that the plant is also alleged to have numerous medicinal properties, but studies supporting same (as with many folk medicines) are remarkably sparse. And for good or ill, some of the compounds in this plant are strongly phototoxic, meaning they are dangerous in the presence of sunlight, so this isn't the sort of stuff you would normally want to rub on bare skin....

Hope that helps.

Good info. And yes we have both. We have the Bahiagrass (Paspalum notatum) throughout the property but the Bidens pelosa (Spanish needle) is predominantly along the fence line and around trees ect.

 

[HighlandRogue]

I read the article associated with the "table3" link above. Did I also read something about fatty liver disease or something in chickens? If so, would this be a problem?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I read the article associated with the "table3" link above. Did I also read something about fatty liver disease or something in chickens? If so, would this be a problem?

In my (very limited) experience, fatty liver disease is more often associated with MUCH higher fat diets than what your birds might obtain on spanish needle. 7.5% fat is about twice what you see in a commercial general purpose or layer-oriented feed, and maybe 25-40% more than you will see in a finisher for meaties. I've seen plenty of waterfowl feeds in the 6% range, as well.

OTOH, lots of people who either don't know better, don't realize how much they are feeding, or simply don't care use "scratch" with abandon because their birds like it, and its entertaining to watch them eat it. Scratch tends to be high in cracked corn, a low protein high starch filler (the excess starch readily converted to fats - one of the reasons its often fed to CornishX to increase slaughter weight) and BOSS (Black Oil Sunflower Seeds). Boss is high protein at anwhere from about 18-22%, but its 44% fat!!!! and some people feed their birds straight BOSS... That's how you promote fatty liver disease in your birds.

I free range mine all day, often don't even shut the gates on their run, so they can go in and out at will, providing a complete nutrition commercial feed once daily to gather them together in the evening. I also slaughter 1-2 birds each week, on average. Every slaughter, I'm looking carefully at the subcutaneous fat levels and fats around the organs of my now butchered bird, and adjusting feed accordingly. I also use their behavior in the evenings to guage how much to feed them - if they gobble it up in a few minutes and swarm my legs, I need to feed more. If they eat for ten minutes and walk away, feed left on the ground, then I cut the ration.

By looking at the outside (behavior) and the inside (condition) I can discern clues to help me manage my birds.

 

[HighlandRogue]

Thanks so much. You clearly have a brain worth pickin'!

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Thanks so much. You clearly have a brain worth pickin'!

I'm still learning, and have LOTS left to learn - I only started 17 months ago. There are many more qualified resources here on BYC I've been fortunate enough to learn from. That, and I like to understand why I'm doing what I do. So research and thinking, research and thinking...