Landrace/adaptive breeding discussion

[LaurenRitz]

This is the traditional advice, but I don't do it. Sometimes a bird that's been sick and recovers lays fewer eggs, but my goal is not to maximise production, it is to maximise flock robustness and resilience. A bird that has recovered from something has antibodies, and they may be passed on in her eggs. The mother of all my Swedish Flowers laid mostly soft-shelled eggs in her first year and I very nearly culled her. She is 7 now and still laying, about one egg a week these days. None of her recent offspring have had health issues.

My Welsumer, now 6, was allowed to brood when she was not laying well. My thinking at the time was, since she's not laying much and has gone broody, I might as well let her raise a clutch. I should instead have followed through to ask, could whatever was preventing her laying well be passed on to any chicks she would keep very close to her for months? She incubated a fabulous clutch of 9. The first died within a fortnight, and they were all dead before 2 years old. Lesson learned on that one: don't let sick hens brood. She has since got over whatever it was, and brooded successfully last year (photo of her and 3 chicks in one of my earlier posts in this thread); the youngsters appear sturdy, and one of the pullets has recently gone broody.

The two currently slated for rehoming/culling have both gotten coccidiosis at least twice in 12 weeks, and this last was I think a bout of worms because ivermectin resolved the issue. It's not a matter of production, but removing proven weaknesses in the first generation. These are hatchery birds, and will be the foundation. If I found one that was badly susceptible to external parasites I would do the same.

All others are doing fine, no obvious problems, no repeated illnesses. I need to remove weaknesses in the first generation if possible, before they get mixed in and are impossible to eradicate.

 

[LaurenRitz]

In my reading - can't remember where now I'm afraid - it was said the natural maximum flock size was about 30, and they'll subdivide above that, and it may just be coincidence that the carrying capacity of my land is about 30.

It is also surely an important factor that all my males have been raised in the flock and think they're related (even if some sometimes have in fact been new blood, brought in via hatching eggs).

So it sounds like we're working with different definitions. Clan, foraging group, or clique, in each case we seem to be talking about either a large family group (30?) which breaks out into smaller clans for foraging and territory, or small unrelated groups that divide up the existing territory to avoid conflict?

 

[LaurenRitz]

There are a lot of strategies for adapting our birds, from STUN (sheer, total, utter neglect) to caring exhaustively for each individual bird. I think we've got a pretty good cross section.

How do you go about adapting your birds to your environment?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

There are a lot of strategies for adapting our birds, from STUN (sheer, total, utter neglect) to caring exhaustively for each individual bird. I think we've got a pretty good cross section.

How do you go about adapting your birds to your environment?

The predators handle part of that.

I handle some of it when I'm selecting which birds go to freezer camp and which get to continue breeding. But I don't control the breeding itself - they can partner with any bird on property. I judge the offspring, not the parents. How does the bird "look" - color, pattern, body shape, comb, legs. How's its weight compared to its siblings? Does it start to lay before six months?

Those are my current metrics. Eventually, I'll start selecting for eggs size, and willing to give up some frequency while I put weight back on the "dual purpose" mutts.

 

[LaurenRitz]

Am I right in understanding that you incubate all your eggs? Is that how you keep track of traits?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Am I right in understanding that you incubate all your eggs? Is that how you keep track of traits?

Me? No.

I incubate to change flock numbers, since I don't have broody birds, and have lost every chick that was successfully brooded.

But when I do incubate, I select for egg size and color in hopes of getting birds that lay larger, lighter tinted eggs. Also, I have a bird that consistently lays thin shells - we don't incubate those.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Last Hatch. The all yellow one and the all black one are destined for freezer camp. he lighter yellow/less chipmonk backed birds will get a little time to show their pattern and growth rates, then them may go. The darker, better patterned birds are likely all keeps - unless they really underperform. Then freezer camp for them too

 

[LaurenRitz]

But when I do incubate, I select for egg size and color in hopes of getting birds that lay larger, lighter tinted eggs. Also, I have a bird that consistently lays thin shells - we don't incubate those.

I have a girl that is two years old and for two years she laid an egg with a pop-out on the end. Those eggs went bad within a week. Luckily her eggs are very distinctive so I can't accidentally set them. Her eggs are smaller now and no longer deformed, but I will never set them.

 

[Perris]

How do you go about adapting your birds to your environment?

Mostly I leave it to natural selection. The birds mate as they wish. The principal interference is that I choose how many, and which eggs to set, when, and under what broody. There my guiding principles are: a relatively small number of eggs (since almost all hatch healthy and survive to maturity these days, I'm talking 6 max); good, normal size eggs for whoever laid it, with all eggs in the clutch about the same size (i.e. medium or large); ideally at least one egg from each hen who has, as yet, no offspring and no issues; at least one from the hen that is brooding the clutch; any extra spaces filled by eggs from the best layers/best all-round hens. Unlike many posters on BYC, I do not think I'm the best judge of a bird's adaptability to this environment, so I hedge my bets, spread the net as wide a possible, and just exclude the obviously defective or abnormal eggs.

I now have to be very selective about the sitting too, as I've reached the carrying capacity of the land and every space is precious. So I do not let pullets sit. I do not let any hen showing any sign of illness sit. I do not let any hen sit before the local wild birds are well into their nest-building (April, usually). The wild birds have got the timing for foraged food availability down to a tee, and I want my flock to synchronize with them. I do not let more than 1 broody sit at a time, for my own convenience largely. Then, turning to the positives, I prioritize those who go broody and who haven't had opportunity to raise a clutch yet. So although there are several experienced broodies here, I ignore them and take a risk with newby broodies, if such exist, because I want to keep broodiness in the gene pool, and there is no shortcut for a broody to gain experience. If I set 6 and she doesn't lose some along the way, I will have to cull some of the adults to make way for the youngsters, or cull some of the youngsters. This also seems fairer than letting one or two older hens raise clutch after clutch, while denying potentially as capable or even more capable young hens the same opportunity. Finite space and resources force unpleasant choices.

 

[fluffycrow]

How do you go about adapting your birds to your environment?

My landraces were created in my environment, so there's not much I do. I leave it to natural selection, mostly. So far, there have not been many losses (low predator load). I've only ever seen one bird not being able to thrive here. The other predator losses are from adolescent birds wandering off/sleeping in unsafe places and getting eaten.

I only intervene and remove a bird from the breeding programme if it proves to disrupt the order of the group. I might also remove a bird if it doesn't have a crest. Due to the name of the landrace (sort of translates to Crested chicken) I don't love having non-crested birds in the group, although I have allowed some to breed due to their excellent ranging and foraging skills. Last one is colour. I don't like keeping black and white birds.

That being said, what Perris said is very true. I might think I know what will survive out here, but in reality, I don't. Two of my best rangers and foragers are white with a little black. One of those is my mature male. I have never met a better rooster. The second one is a broody-raised daughter of his. Some nights, she even refuses to sleep in the coop. Despite that, she flies very high into the trees, and has never been caught so far