Classroom hatching gone downhill

[UrbanHomesteadTX]

I've had several successful hatches at home with my own incubator and eggs from my own chickens, I've thoroughly enjoyed each and every hatch I've conducted! But, Yikes! I am quickly discovering how difficult it is to hatch shipped eggs!

My ma is a health teacher for Middle Schoolers, she's also involved in teaching Career Pathways and runs the school's Animal Care club. I've had the joy (and misery) of volunteering for her to discuss and present to her students about careers in Conservation, and, yes, Animal Care. So, we were excited to finally get approval from the school to hatch out chicks. As part of the whole thing, the school purchased and had an incubator and eggs delivered for the project. The students that had interest in animals have been so excited for the chicks to hatch...

Well, downhill from there. We had been sent quail eggs first, chicken eggs over a week later. We threw the shipped chicken eggs in with the already incubating quail eggs and filled the rest of the incubator out with our own hatching eggs. I was out of town and not able to come around for any part of the incubating process of the quail, but everything seemed to be running smoothly. At lockdown for the quail, I had ma take my incubator to school to put the quail in for hatching, so as not to disturb the chick eggs, and the kids could actually see through the clear top. By day 19 (a Friday) the quail had yet to hatch, so I finally came up to try to candle and see what was up. Of the 12, seven were completely clear, with the other five seeming to have all quit at various stages of development. Only one seemed to have gotten to the fully developed stage before quitting.

Now, it also seems the chicken eggs are having the same luck. Of the shipped eggs, we have absolutely no idea what breed they are (the department wouldn't tell us) But we had what looked to be 6 standard, and 6 bantam eggs. I candled Friday as I went to help with the quail and already had to toss half that were clear or had very well-defined blood rings. Then, this morning (the following Monday) I had taken her to work and candled again. All of the bantams that were left had blood rings, as well as one of the standards. It's not yet week two, and already we're down to only two eggs from the school district. We're certainly happy we added our own eggs in there, or else the entire semester's hatch may have been a complete failure. Here's to hoping for the survival of the last two eggs!

Any thoughts as to what we could have done to aid the hatch? We had them rest for 24 hours before starting incubating (mainly to ensure they'd hatch in the middle of the week and less risk of them hatching early or late when no one is there.) And the incubator seems to be doing it's job well enough. It's a Styrofoam incubator, and both the incubator's temperature and the student thermometer that we threw in there read the same and stays consistent during the week. The turner works like a charm... the only thing that might be sketchy is the hygrometer, I'm a little suspicious of it's accuracy. My own eggs seem to be doing fine in there with just a few clears pulled on Friday. I'm mainly curious as to why all the Bantams were early quitters (With very thick, defined blood rings. I have never seen any so thick before!)

Also, a shout out to Dallas ISD for being the absolute worse at purchasing. It's not just the chick eggs, it's all the other critters and critter equipment as well. Every request for order is a mystery.

 

[Debbie292d]

So sorry for all the duds.

The clear ones certainly were either unfertilized or “scrambled” during shipping.

Many of us are having horrible luck this year with shipped eggs versus other years. I hate to blame it all on USPS but that’s the common denominator with them all.

Had you let them set out at room temp for 18-24 hours first? That can help the air cells settle back in place.

As for those with blood rings, that obviously means they started and then died. If temp, rotation, and humidity were all consistent, then I guess shipping can be blamed there too, but I personally never saw blood rings on mine…they were either clear or they made it.

Perhaps a student within the school has parents that raise chickens and would give you a great deal or donate some. A short car ride in someone’s lap would be a huge improvement over shipping!

 

[UrbanHomesteadTX]

So sorry for all the duds.

The clear ones certainly were either unfertilized or “scrambled” during shipping.

Many of us are having horrible luck this year with shipped eggs versus other years. I hate to blame it all on USPS but that’s the common denominator with them all.

Had you let them set out at room temp for 18-24 hours first? That can help the air cells settle back in place.

As for those with blood rings, that obviously means they started and then died. If temp, rotation, and humidity were all consistent, then I guess shipping can be blamed there too, but I personally never saw blood rings on mine…they were either clear or they made it.

Perhaps a student within the school has parents that raise chickens and would give you a great deal or donate some. A short car ride in someone’s lap would be a huge improvement over shipping!

I also hate to blame it all on USPS, having worked for them previously, but I've also seen the way they handle packages... and how I handled packages... and can honestly say they likely play a factor It also doesn't help that we have no way of knowing where they're from, who shipped and handled them (the quail eggs came in a brown paper sack, not packaged for shipping, but more local transport... I want to say the same for the chicken eggs as well, but have no clue)

We also did let them rest at room temperature for 24 hours before starting incubating (mainly to ensure they'd hatch in the middle of the week and less risk of them hatching early or late when no one is there.)

The blood rings is one of my main confusions. I don't know if it's related to the breed, the shipping, or the incubating... my own personal hatches with my Leghorns next to never see blood rings. As you said, either they are unfertilized, or not, with maybe only one or two quitters in every batch of 20... but all of the Bantams were all early quitters with the exception of one unfertilized. Two had quit by Friday, the other three quit over the weekend.

Perhaps a student within the school has parents that raise chickens and would give you a great deal or donate some. A short car ride in someone’s lap would be a huge improvement over shipping!

Agreed. One of the reasons why I filled the extra space with my own eggs. I already know their hatch rate and what to expect... it's also helping me to see if there is an issue with the incubation. If there's a large difference in hatch rate, I'll know there was likely something wrong.

 

[Debbie292d]

I also hate to blame it all on USPS, having worked for them previously, but I've also seen the way they handle packages... and how I handled packages... and can honestly say they likely play a factor It also doesn't help that we have no way of knowing where they're from, who shipped and handled them (the quail eggs came in a brown paper sack, not packaged for shipping, but more local transport... I want to say the same for the chicken eggs as well, but have no clue)

We also did let them rest at room temperature for 24 hours before starting incubating (mainly to ensure they'd hatch in the middle of the week and less risk of them hatching early or late when no one is there.)

The blood rings is one of my main confusions. I don't know if it's related to the breed, the shipping, or the incubating... my own personal hatches with my Leghorns next to never see blood rings. As you said, either they are unfertilized, or not, with maybe only one or two quitters in every batch of 20... but all of the Bantams were all early quitters with the exception of one unfertilized. Two had quit by Friday, the other three quit over the weekend.


Agreed. One of the reasons why I filled the extra space with my own eggs. I already know their hatch rate and what to expect... it's also helping me to see if there is an issue with the incubation. If there's a large difference in hatch rate, I'll know there was likely something wrong.

That was excellent you put some of your own in there! If they’d just let you hatch your own or someone local that would help immensely!

 

[007Sean]

Blood rings can happen during shipping or if the temperature is too high. What is the brand of the incubator. Did you use a calibrated thermometer? and did you 'salt test' calibrate the hygrometer?
What were the average temperature and Rh % during incubation?

 

[UrbanHomesteadTX]

Blood rings can happen during shipping or if the temperature is too high. What is the brand of the incubator. Did you use a calibrated thermometer? and did you 'salt test' calibrate the hygrometer?
What were the average temperature and Rh % during incubation?

That's good to know!
I have no idea what brand it is, it's all Styrofoam, I know that much
We're using both the incubator's thermometer and a student thermometer that was in the science storage room. I don't know how accurate they are, but they both match in readings, so I'm assuming they're right. I believe the temperature has been consistent at 99.5-100 degrees. We have not tested the Hygrometer, but I will look up the salt test for future knowledge! The humidity should have been hovering around 50 degrees.
I'm not actively there, so I can only use information Ma has been giving me.

 

[007Sean]

50% humidity throughout incubation is too high. 40 to 45% would be best during incubation, if Bobwhites, or other 'new world' species, raising it to 50 -55% during the last 3 or 4 days of incubation.
If Coturnix, then a Rh% of around 30 to 40% works better, raising it to 50-55% for the hatching phase. This would also work for chicken eggs, so no need to change settings for the different eggs.

Shipped eggs normally don't do well but sometimes you get surprised by the fertility rate and hatch rate.
The 'cheap' styrofoam incubators are notoriously instruments of torture, for both eggs and humans! Some things can be done to narrow the error curve but require more time and money.

 

[UrbanHomesteadTX]

50% humidity throughout incubation is too high. 40 to 45% would be best during incubation, if Bobwhites, or other 'new world' species, raising it to 50 -55% during the last 3 or 4 days of incubation.
If Coturnix, then a Rh% of around 30 to 40% works better, raising it to 50-55% for the hatching phase. This would also work for chicken eggs, so no need to change settings for the different eggs.

Shipped eggs normally don't do well but sometimes you get surprised by the fertility rate and hatch rate.
The 'cheap' styrofoam incubators are notoriously instruments of torture, for both eggs and humans! Some things can be done to narrow the error curve but require more time and money.

That's interesting! Thanks for the info.
I had tried looking for optimum humidity for quail (coturnix) but wasn't able to find a solid answer anywhere, in fact I saw some saying 60% during incubation. So without an actual answer anywhere, I thought keeping to 50% would be fine.
I'll keep this in mind next time I try quail, I'll be getting some eggs for my own hatching this week.

I agree, not a big fan of a styrofoam incubator, but it's the school's, we use what we got available to us

 

[UrbanHomesteadTX]

Alas, the last two of the school's shipped chicken eggs that I candled that were viable yesterday were dead today. Blood rings in each and every one of them. So sad when you can see the little embryo and know it didnt make it.
But, at least we still have our own eggs in there going strong, so at least something will come out of this hatch for the students. Would have been a real bummer if there were two failed hatches.

But, now having discovered more about how they were shipped, it really doesn't surprise me at all... the fact any of them started developing at all is a miracle . Still no idea where they came from, but the final bit of their journey involves getting shipped to a distribution facility well over an hour away, before getting bagged up in a paper bag in an egg carton with shreaded paper under it, and then taking a ride throughout the whole school district as they deliver to each of the schools that had ordered eggs.
Oh well Better knowledge for next year.

What is the brand of the incubator.

I looked at the incubator while I was there this morning and discovered it to be a Little Giant.

 

[Debbie292d]

Alas, the last two of the school's shipped chicken eggs that I candled that were viable yesterday were dead today. Blood rings in each and every one of them. So sad when you can see the little embryo and know it didnt make it.
But, at least we still have our own eggs in there going strong, so at least something will come out of this hatch for the students. Would have been a real bummer if there were two failed hatches.

But, now having discovered more about how they were shipped, it really doesn't surprise me at all... the fact any of them started developing at all is a miracle . Still no idea where they came from, but the final bit of their journey involves getting shipped to a distribution facility well over an hour away, before getting bagged up in a paper bag in an egg carton with shreaded paper under it, and then taking a ride throughout the whole school district as they deliver to each of the schools that had ordered eggs.
Oh well Better knowledge for next year.


I looked at the incubator while I was there this morning and discovered it to be a Little Giant.

Sounds like they may as well have played football with those shipped eggs.

Granted, shipped eggs are a big gamble any of us who order them take, but still, it's nearly unheard of to get a 0% hatch rate when all conditions are nearly perfect.

You're going to be able to prove it to them to just not bother getting those eggs again, wherever they came from. I'd suggest they also give lessons to those in charge of receipt and redistribution or let an experienced chicken tender such as yourself be in charge of it. That may have helped a little bit.