32 Week Orpingtons still not laying

[Logar]

Oh, good. I first read it as that much per bird, and I was about to post about it being too much, when I realized you might have meant the whole flock. I'm glad I asked

I just went back and changed it to add clarity as I don’t want to confuse anyone lol. Thank you!

 

[NatJ]

I have my first ever flock of 4 Orpingtons who are 32 weeks today. 1 of them started laying 4 weeks ago and has given a 1.9oz egg every single day (what a champ!)…. However, the other ladies (while super curious about the whole process) have not laid anything.

How do you know that only one is laying?

I've had times when it seemed like just one bird was laying, but it turned out to be two birds laying on alternate days. Or various other cases where the number of eggs never matched the number of birds.

Combs change color thru the day but the look the same as the hen who is already laying.

Which one is laying?
In the photos, I see that one has much larger comb and wattles than the others. If only one is laying, I would expect it to be her.

Having never had hens before, I just always know that shorter days will impede egg laying but that is for established hens… will pullets actually START in fall/winter? Like, a switch gets flipped to “on” no matter the season? Or do they just not start at all until spring if we “missed the window”’of daylight and maturity lining up?

I would say it is a bit of all the options.

If the pullets are maturing as the days get longer, they will start laying at a younger age. If they mature as the days get shorter, they will wait until a later age to start laying, but they often will start even with short days.

I once had a flock of hens that all hatched in late June: the first one began laying at the end of November (days short and getting shorter), the slowest one waited until about April, and the rest started at various points in between. Maby of them did wait until after the solstice when the days were getting longer again. That flock included several different breeds, which is part of why there was the wide range of ages, but there were definite differences even among same-breed birds.

 

[SuperC]

How do you know that only one is laying?

I've had times when it seemed like just one bird was laying, but it turned out to be two birds laying on alternate days. Or various other cases where the number of eggs never matched the number of birds.


Which one is laying?
In the photos, I see that one has much larger comb and wattles than the others. If only one is laying, I would expect it to be her.


I would say it is a bit of all the options.

If the pullets are maturing as the days get longer, they will start laying at a younger age. If they mature as the days get shorter, they will wait until a later age to start laying, but they often will start even with short days.

I once had a flock of hens that all hatched in late June: the first one began laying at the end of November (days short and getting shorter), the slowest one waited until about April, and the rest started at various points in between. Maby of them did wait until after the solstice when the days were getting longer again. That flock included several different breeds, which is part of why there was the wide range of ages, but there were definite differences even among same-breed birds.

I’m a total stalker, and I have motion detection cameras in the coop that goes off when they walk in to lay- and it’s the same one every day (& I do vent checks every now and then to see what they look like). But it’s the same one.

The grey one in the box is the one laying- hers look red and big in that one, but go light pink at other times of days and in person the size is the same as the others (& the others get really red combs when excited as well).

 

[SuperC]

I think it is probably the days getting shorter but I don’t think the diet is doing them a favor. As I mentioned in the other thread, Cluck and co isn’t a good feed but i would back off on the treats as well. Around 4-5 table spoons or just about 1/4 cup of treats a day is the max I would recommend for the whole flock; 10% of their diet going off of 1/4 a pound of feed per day.

Edited to change amount of treats as I thought there were 5 birds and add clarification

I have some Kalmbach Henhouse Reserve on order right now (it’s the super whole grain one) so I can offer that and try fermenting it as well.

I hope they like it! I’m afraid they will just pick out the bits they like and it won’t be as “all around health” so I was going to mix it with other food.
I also got some Dumor Organic pellets and banged them up into a sort of crumble and they snacked on that a bit today, but mostly ignored it. I’ve tried all the tricks of mixing the pellets into the food to transistion them, but they throw it on the ground and only eat the real crumbles. They are also shockingly CLEAN eaters and don’t fling the crumbles, but they throw the pellets around like confetti. But maybe I’ll be sneaky, and start using the pellets as “treats” (I’ll add some warm sourdough starter and water and make it into a morning mash- they will think it’s a treaty treat breakfast, but it’s just plain food dressed as snacks)

Seriosuly, I had a toddler who ate raw onions and red peppers like they were French fries and she’s an adventurous eater, but I have chickens who act like pickey toddlers who don’t like the color of the plate or something

But I’ve started cutting back on all the “extras” since yesterday morning… annd they are “MOST displeased”. This morning it was COLD (45 when it was just in the 60 the other day) so this morning I mixed up some warm water, about 1/4 cup of old fashioned oats and some sourdough starter (maybe a tablespoon or so) and offered that for a warm breakfast. They looked at me like “where’s the warm ham and eggs?!?”. But I did offer about 1/4 cup of scratch mix in the dirt as I left for them to have a “warming” activity of scratching in the wood chips for some grains. They don’t like the new “reduced snacks” routine, but don’t seem to hold it against me

 

[NatJ]

I also got some Dumor Organic pellets and banged them up into a sort of crumble and they snacked on that a bit today, but mostly ignored it. I’ve tried all the tricks of mixing the pellets into the food to transistion them, but they throw it on the ground and only eat the real crumbles. They are also shockingly CLEAN eaters and don’t fling the crumbles, but they throw the pellets around like confetti. But maybe I’ll be sneaky, and start using the pellets as “treats” (I’ll add some warm sourdough starter and water and make it into a morning mash- they will think it’s a treaty treat breakfast, but it’s just plain food dressed as snacks)

Seriosuly, I had a toddler who ate raw onions and red peppers like they were French fries and she’s an adventurous eater, but I have chickens who act like pickey toddlers who don’t like the color of the plate or something

But I’ve started cutting back on all the “extras” since yesterday morning… annd they are “MOST displeased”. This morning it was COLD (45 when it was just in the 60 the other day) so this morning I mixed up some warm water, about 1/4 cup of old fashioned oats and some sourdough starter (maybe a tablespoon or so) and offered that for a warm breakfast. They looked at me like “where’s the warm ham and eggs?!?”. But I did offer about 1/4 cup of scratch mix in the dirt as I left for them to have a “warming” activity of scratching in the wood chips for some grains. They don’t like the new “reduced snacks” routine, but don’t seem to hold it against me

Have you tried making a simple wet mash with the feed, with no extra stuff in it?
Just put some pellets in a dish, add water, and let it sit for a minute or two. You can use warm water in winter and cold water in summer, which makes it a nice treat in either season.

For as picky as your chickens are, they might surprise you by liking it better without the sourdough starter, the old fashioned oats, and anything else you might consider adding.

A particular concern I see: most of the things you list are low in protein. Compared with any complete chicken food, the scratch grains and rolled oats are definitely lower in protein, and the sourdough starter probably is as well (I don't have any numbers handy for it, so I'm guessing from the amount of protein in wheat, which is consistently lower than the target protein for a complete layer or grower feed.)

If the chickens want more protein, the normal chicken food would be a better choice than those other things. The ham & eggs you mentioned would also be a good source of protein, but I'm guessing that was a joke rather than what you usually give them.

If the chickens like to scratch for something in the wood chips, maybe try tossing a small amount of pellets instead of what you have been using. By "small amount" I mean something like a single tablespoon for the entire flock, for several days in a row. After a few days you will know if they like it (toss a larger amount of pellets each ay) or if they still do not want the pellets (give up on that idea and just use the pellets in mash until they are gone.)

Another option with the pellets is to put some of them in a separate feeder. That way the chickens can look at the pellets and think about them, but will not have as much reason to toss them around looking for anything better. Sometimes chickens will like a food after they have a while to think about it, try a few bites, decide whether it makes them feel healthy or sick, try a bigger amount and see how that works... I think that is pretty much how chickens decide if a food is good to eat. (They may not like the pellets no matter what you do, but then again they might eventually come around.)

 

[SuperC]

Have you tried making a simple wet mash with the feed, with no extra stuff in it?
Just put some pellets in a dish, add water, and let it sit for a minute or two. You can use warm water in winter and cold water in summer, which makes it a nice treat in either season.

For as picky as your chickens are, they might surprise you by liking it better without the sourdough starter, the old fashioned oats, and anything else you might consider adding.

A particular concern I see: most of the things you list are low in protein. Compared with any complete chicken food, the scratch grains and rolled oats are definitely lower in protein, and the sourdough starter probably is as well (I don't have any numbers handy for it, so I'm guessing from the amount of protein in wheat, which is consistently lower than the target protein for a complete layer or grower feed.)

If the chickens want more protein, the normal chicken food would be a better choice than those other things. The ham & eggs you mentioned would also be a good source of protein, but I'm guessing that was a joke rather than what you usually give them.

If the chickens like to scratch for something in the wood chips, maybe try tossing a small amount of pellets instead of what you have been using. By "small amount" I mean something like a single tablespoon for the entire flock, for several days in a row. After a few days you will know if they like it (toss a larger amount of pellets each ay) or if they still do not want the pellets (give up on that idea and just use the pellets in mash until they are gone.)

Another option with the pellets is to put some of them in a separate feeder. That way the chickens can look at the pellets and think about them, but will not have as much reason to toss them around looking for anything better. Sometimes chickens will like a food after they have a while to think about it, try a few bites, decide whether it makes them feel healthy or sick, try a bigger amount and see how that works... I think that is pretty much how chickens decide if a food is good to eat. (They may not like the pellets no matter what you do, but then again they might eventually come around.)

I have made the mash without the oats, but theyLOVE the oats! Those are always the first things they pick out of any thing I make them. They eat those down and then pick over the rest. The sourdough starter isn’t for “nutritional content” per se, but it is for a boost of fermentation bacteria for their gut & crop health (similar to how a pre/probiotic would be). They seem to enjoy the mash more with the sourdough starter than without it, so I just add it when I have it on hand.

They always have free access to feed in the run, (in multiple gravity feeders or bowls) as well as a bowl in the coop if they are hungry before we let them out in the morning; but the breakfast snack is just sometbing “extra” we have always done for them since they were babies- it’s not a meal replacement, It’s just a “good morning” snack for them.

It is USUALLY a protein rich snack (yes, eggs and ham are legit something they get I buy diced ham and make a scrambled egg for them- yes my husband thinks I’m nuts but . but sometimes it’s shredded chicken, or some solider worms, but there is always some protein rich item as the base of the snack. I always mixed it with other items to balance it (some fresh kale and dry oat for instance for a veggi/carb component). But it’s usually about 1/4-1/3 a cup total of food. They don’t hork it down either, they each eat a few bites and then wander off to get a drink of water and eat some crumbles. They return to bowl throughout the morning and finish it off by 10 or so.

They are picky, but very ladylike when it comes to eating. Nobody glutton eats or hogs the bowl. They eat a few bites at a time and wander off for other things (usually they come to hop in my lap for morning cuddles before wandering off to go “chicken” For the day.

I’ve tried tossing some pellets around on the ground multiple times before and they ignore it. They end up molding after a few days (foggy mornings get them damp) or they are attracting ants, so I stopped that. This afternoon I placed a handful of pellets into a “treat bowl” and left it in the run. They pecked at it once and walked away and hours later it’s still untouched; we will see if they become more interested.

 

[NatJ]

I have made the mash without the oats, but theyLOVE the oats! Those are always the first things they pick out of any thing I make them. They eat those down and then pick over the rest. The sourdough starter isn’t for “nutritional content” per se, but it is for a boost of fermentation bacteria for their gut & crop health (similar to how a pre/probiotic would be). They seem to enjoy the mash more with the sourdough starter than without it, so I just add it when I have it on hand.

They always have free access to feed in the run, (in multiple gravity feeders or bowls) as well as a bowl in the coop if they are hungry before we let them out in the morning; but the breakfast snack is just sometbing “extra” we have always done for them since they were babies- it’s not a meal replacement, It’s just a “good morning” snack for them.

It is USUALLY a protein rich snack (yes, eggs and ham are legit something they get I buy diced ham and make a scrambled egg for them- yes my husband thinks I’m nuts but . but sometimes it’s shredded chicken, or some solider worms, but there is always some protein rich item as the base of the snack. I always mixed it with other items to balance it (some fresh kale and dry oat for instance for a veggi/carb component). But it’s usually about 1/4-1/3 a cup total of food. They don’t hork it down either, they each eat a few bites and then wander off to get a drink of water and eat some crumbles. They return to bowl throughout the morning and finish it off by 10 or so.

They are picky, but very ladylike when it comes to eating. Nobody glutton eats or hogs the bowl. They eat a few bites at a time and wander off for other things (usually they come to hop in my lap for morning cuddles before wandering off to go “chicken” For the day.

I’ve tried tossing some pellets around on the ground multiple times before and they ignore it. They end up molding after a few days (foggy mornings get them damp) or they are attracting ants, so I stopped that. This afternoon I placed a handful of pellets into a “treat bowl” and left it in the run. They pecked at it once and walked away and hours later it’s still untouched; we will see if they become more interested.

It sounds like you've been pretty thorough in trying things and noticing your chickens' reactions! That set of treats and additions does sound more balanced than the parts I noticed in a previous post.

Regarding how much total food: many hens will eat about 1/4 pound of commercial chicken feed in a day if they do not eat anything else. Depending on which brand of chicken feed and whether it is pellets or crumbles, that can be anywhere from 1/2 cup to 1 cup of feed each day for one hen. That would make between 2 cups and 4 cups of feed in a day for 4 hens.

If you follow the common advice of limiting treats to 10% of their total feed consumption, that would mean the treats for the whole flock, for the entire day, would be about 1/4 cup. If the breakfast snack is 1/4 to 1/3 cup of food it is more than enough treats for the entire day, without giving them anything else.

If you are giving more treats than about 10% of their diet, you have to pay attention to the nutrition of the treats. The 10% guideline lets you pretty much ignore whether the "treats" are fatty, starchy, salty, or anything else.

It sounds like your treats are moderately well balanced (protein, carbohydrates, fruit/veggies), so the total quantity may not be a big deal, but if you are trying to cut any of it, I would cut out some of the carbohydrates rather than the proteins.

 

[rosemarythyme]

Yes pullets can start laying in winter. It's more the daylight hours shortening at this point that delays laying, plus the fact that Orps can be slow to mature as you note, that's working against you.