A BEE thread....for those interested in beekeeping.

[mak1]

Whats the color of the queen. If its light brown or golden that means the bees will all be Italian and be gentle. If the queen is black or black brown stripped they can be a mix and can be mean a lot of times. Don't check the hive to often because they will start to get cranky. Also put some frames with plastic foundation and let them work on that frame.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Hello, all!

I'm confessing that I haven't read through the whole thread up-front.

Wondering if anyone here is using top-bar hives or any other horizontal hive designs (for example: http://horizontalhive.com/how-to-build/hive-frame-swarm-trap.shtml ). Could you tell me if you've liked them? Have they wintered okay for you?

 

[Beekissed]

I've done the TBH and loved it, but my bees swarmed before I could get a chance to have them for long. I may be getting back into bees this spring and will be doing a long body Lang/TBH hybrid type hive if I do so. Hope to bait in a swarm of my own this time.

 

[rebrascora]

For the hobby beekeeper, a top bar hive makes an awful lot of sense and my bees are certainly happy in them and do well.

Start up costs of buying a Langstroth hive, frames, foundation, bees and beesuit and smoker and maybe even an extractor are in excess of £500. I have a neighbour who reckons that each jar of honey they get from their bees costs nearly a £100.

I can make a top bar hive out of scrap timber for under £10 and populate it with a swarm that costs me nothing, other than the time and effort to catch it. Don't need to feed them as swarms usually have a full belly of honey to get them started and the bees in a swarm are actually selected to be young and at a prime age for comb building, so they are all ready to start setting up home as soon as they have found a suitable cavity....All you have to do is make your hive into the most attractive cavity in the area, so that they accept it and stay put. Understanding what bees need and prefer and perhaps more importantly what they dislike, helps to achieve that.

I've kept bees for nearly 20 years and I started out with conventional framed hives like Langstrroths and only discovered top bar hives a few years ago. I still have my original hives and I like both types of hives for different reasons..... increased honey production in the framed hives and probably slightly easier to inspect....., better quality of life for the bees in TBH, cheap and easy to construct, no heavy lifting of 30lb+ boxes of honey as it's harvested a top bar at a time.... the wonder of "natural" comb built to whatever size and shape the bees need!.

If you go for a TBH I would strongly recommend you incorporate an observation window into the construction as it's a huge benefit and educational tool, especially in winter. If you are in a hot climate I would recommend a Kenyan TBH with sloping sides rather than a Tanzanian which is just a rectangular long box as there is less weight to top bar attachment in a slope sided one, so less likely to have comb collapse.

It's easy for people who have failures with Top Bar Hives to blame the hive or say that it's not suitable for their climate, but they can work in any climate if thought is given to the requirements of bees in their location. ie shade and insulation in a hot climate and not opening the hive during a heat wave. Insulation and shelter from prevailing winds in a cold climate and I prefer full sun in my location, as it never gets too hot.

You get less honey harvest in a top bar hive because the comb is usually destroyed in the harvesting process... ie cut off and crushed and strained whereas it is extracted in a framed hive and the empty combs put back to be refilled.... that comb takes energy to rebuild and energy uses honey. Also in a top bar hive, drone (male bee) production is not suppressed and drones eat honey but don't produce it, so that also reduces the amount available for the beekeeper.

Personally I'm not happy with the current state of farming where creatures are pushed to the limits of production and beyond. Commercial beekeeping is no different. As a hobby beekeeper, if you want more honey, build more hives and keep more bees and plant nectar rich plants, rather than push the bees in one hive to be more productive than is natural. I guess that's the same reason many of us keep chickens.... because we are not comfortable with commercial practices.

Anyway, that's my 2pennies worth of thoughts on Top Bar Hives vs Conventional framed hives.

I'm rather excited at the moment because I'm going to a skep beekeeping workshop next month. It would be nice to add a couple of those to my garden apiary.

Pleased to report that all 9 of my colonies have survived the winter so far again, even the tiny one that was a late cast swarm and only had a couple of pounds of stores tops. They are amazingly hardy and thrifty little beasties. Hoping for an early spring, so they don't have to hang in there too much longer.

 

[noble]

Whats the color of the queen. If its light brown or golden that means the bees will all be Italian and be gentle. If the queen is black or black brown stripped they can be a mix and can be mean a lot of times. Don't check the hive to often because they will start to get cranky. Also put some frames with plastic foundation and let them work on that frame.

thank you she (queen) was almost all gold and they are very calm. As for food we have large orange groves all around us for miles . And I plan to plant flowers and stuff in the 3 acer field in front of them. I am super excited. . Never had bee's before. I lucked in to them by finding that old trailer.

 

[noble]

For the hobby beekeeper, a top bar hive makes an awful lot of sense and my bees are certainly happy in them and do well.

Start up costs of buying a Langstroth hive, frames, foundation, bees and beesuit and smoker and maybe even an extractor are in excess of £500. I have a neighbour who reckons that each jar of honey they get from their bees costs nearly a £100.

I can make a top bar hive out of scrap timber for under £10 and populate it with a swarm that costs me nothing, other than the time and effort to catch it. Don't need to feed them as swarms usually have a full belly of honey to get them started and the bees in a swarm are actually selected to be young and at a prime age for comb building, so they are all ready to start setting up home as soon as they have found a suitable cavity....All you have to do is make your hive into the most attractive cavity in the area, so that they accept it and stay put. Understanding what bees need and prefer and perhaps more importantly what they dislike, helps to achieve that. 

I've kept bees for nearly 20 years and I started out with conventional framed hives like Langstrroths and only discovered top bar hives a few years ago. I still have my original hives and I like both types of hives for different reasons..... increased honey production in the framed hives and probably slightly easier to inspect....., better quality of life for the bees in TBH, cheap and easy to construct, no heavy lifting of 30lb+ boxes of honey as it's harvested a top bar at a time.... the wonder of "natural" comb built to whatever size and shape the bees need!. 

If you go for a TBH I would strongly recommend you incorporate an observation window into the construction as it's a huge benefit and educational tool, especially in winter. If you are in a hot climate I would recommend a Kenyan TBH with sloping sides rather than a Tanzanian which is just a rectangular long box as there is less weight to top bar attachment in a slope sided one, so less likely to have comb collapse. 

It's easy for people who have failures with Top Bar Hives to blame the hive or say that it's not suitable for their climate, but they can work in any climate if thought is given to the requirements of bees in their location. ie shade and insulation in a hot climate and not opening the hive during a heat wave. Insulation and shelter from prevailing winds in a cold climate and I prefer full sun in my location, as it never gets too hot.

You get less honey harvest in a top bar hive because the comb is usually destroyed in the harvesting process... ie cut off and crushed and strained whereas it is extracted in a framed hive and the empty combs put back to be refilled.... that comb takes energy to rebuild and energy uses honey. Also in a top bar hive, drone (male bee) production is not suppressed and drones eat honey but don't produce it, so that also reduces the amount available for the beekeeper.

Personally I'm not happy with the current state of farming where creatures are pushed to the limits of production and beyond. Commercial beekeeping is no different. As a hobby beekeeper, if you want more honey, build more hives and keep more bees and plant nectar rich plants, rather than push the bees in one hive to be more productive than is natural. I guess that's the same reason many of us keep chickens.... because we are not comfortable with commercial practices.

Anyway, that's my 2pennies worth of thoughts on Top Bar Hives vs Conventional framed hives.

I'm rather excited at the moment because I'm going to a skep beekeeping workshop next month. It would be nice to add a couple of those to my garden apiary. 

Pleased to report that all 9 of my colonies have survived the winter so far again, even the tiny one that was a late cast swarm and only had a couple of pounds of stores tops. They are amazingly hardy and thrifty little beasties. Hoping for an early spring, so they don't have to hang in there too much longer.

first thank you for the info 20 years of experience doesn't come easy. And like I said I'm a new bee lol. We let our bee's out of the langstroth but I don't want to push them I just want them to do there thing I don't care if I get 5lb or 50 lb of honey . I just know where the bee's where was going to be distroyed and they would have been killed so I had to act fast. There are 2 more colonys there and I know I can get to one more of them. I got my boxes (2 brooder 1 super, vail and stuff ) from dadant.com this time I will buy the box es unassembled so there cheaper. I just had to act fast. I spoke to the guy that owns the property and they are a few months out on replacing the trailer so now I have more time than I thought.

 

[Leahs Mom]

I've done the TBH and loved it, but my bees swarmed before I could get a chance to have them for long. I may be getting back into bees this spring and will be doing a long body Lang/TBH hybrid type hive if I do so. Hope to bait in a swarm of my own this time

Have you seen the hive plans at horizontal hive .com? There is one there for a long lang that looks interesting. http://horizontalhive.com/how-to-build/long-langstroth-plans.shtml

 

[rebrascora]

Hi noble

I think it's absolutely fantastic that you are cutting these colonies out of the trailer and even more so, when you have no previous experience with bees. It is far easier to fix a cut out comb into a frame than try to attach it to a top bar and I've got no real gripe with framed hives as such other than that they are expensive and unnecessary for the average person who wants to keep bees. I have made hives from all sorts of different things, including an old corner cabinet, an apple crate and I made a nuc box out of that plastic tongue and groove bathroom cladding, that someone had stripped off and was throwing out. Bees happily live in anything including "old trailers" as you have discovered.

My comments regarding top bar hives were directed towards Leahs Mom who was asking about them and in no way a criticism of your use of a Langstroth, which was probably the best hive to use for that particular job. It will be great if you can get either or both of the other two out. If you can't get in to cut the third one out, you might find a "trap out" possible.... it will take a little time but any bees that you can save that way is better than nothing and now that you have comb with brood, you have everything you need to do a trap out... you will find info on You Tube.

It is a totally fascinating hobby and I can tell that you are getting a real buzz out of it, which I can totally relate to. Your location sounds great although I'm hoping that those orange groves are organic. Wide scale agricultural use of pesticides is one of the major problems facing our bees....It's great that you are already thinking about planting some healthy forage for them on your own land.

Best of luck with them.

Barbara

 

[Leahs Mom]

@rebrascora

Thanks! I've been doing LOTS of reading.... so I'm "full of book knowledge". It's pretty interesting to read all the differing philosophies and sort through everything and hopefully be able to tell the difference between the "baby and the bathwater".


My approach is the health/natural approach for the bees - and for me since I'm going to be using the honey they don't use . I was almost given (paid $50) a top bar hive made from the plans for the Golden Mean hive ( http://www.backyardhive.com/backyardhive_beekeeping_shop/ ) so I know I'll start with that particular hive. (KTBH).

But after looking at the other horizontal options, I'm considering all kinds of ideas for additional hives. I like the idea of using the lang frames in a horizontal hive (as @Beekissed mentioned) since they're standard and easy to purchase/replace. I'm thinking I'd like to use them without foundation if I go that way. I haven't fully figured out if that is possible with the langs as I haven't thought it all the way through yet.

I would consider wax foundation if there were somewhere to purchase it that didn't come from wax from "conventional" hives. I'm trying to avoid the medication (etc.) residue that would likely be in purchased wax foundation.

 

[Bine]

I think that some very bee-friendly hives around, the only thing is, that most of them are only affortable if you can built them on your own. Log, Warre, Modified Golden Hive or Bienenkiste are all minimal invasive hives. And I belive that our bees do better with less invasive methods and less sugar water and a more diverse diet.
This is my allotment in last year, buzzing with bees and bumble bees. I try to feed the bees on my allotment b/c as Barbara mentioned commercial growers often spray and even when the lable says that it doesn't harm bees, we never know. Our bees don't die b/c of a bad flue and not every dying hive has varroa. So I try my best to keep the bees away from the commercial orchards half an hours drive away.