Advice for hatching twin embryos in one egg? Lockdown tomorrow..?

[NatJ]

So I was counting them as being on (almost) day 16 because I started incubating them the early morning of 10/17, and when I googled if you’re supposed to count the day you put them in or not, the first thing I saw was that you count that day as day 1 if you put them in in the morning, if later in the day you count it as day 0. I admit I didn’t check any other sources to see if this is the norm or not.
So in a couple hours from now it will be exactly their 16th day in there.

The most common counting method I see is based on how long the egg has been in the incubator.

So when you first put them in, they have not been in for any amount of time.
One hour later, they have been in the incubator for one hour.
24 hours after they went in, they have been in the incubator for 24 hours.
By one week later, they have been in for one week. At that point you are on the same day of the week, same time of day, as when they went in.
Scientific writeups of chick development use this method, sometimes even talking about development at specific numbers of hours.

October 17 was a tuesday.
So 7 days was on tuesday, October 24, at the same time as they went in.
14 days was on tuesday, October 31, at the same time as they went in.
15 days is on wednesday, November 1, also at the same time as they went in.
21 days will be on tuesday, November 7, still at the same time they went in, and is when they are expected to hatch (although they can actually hatch earlier or later, this is the typical "hatch on day 21" day).

If you were to count the day they went in as the first day in the incubator, then you would expect them to hatch on the 22nd day (after being in for 21 days, they are starting their 22nd day of incubation.) But that is not how the most common numbering system goes for hatching eggs (although people certainly use it for some other areas of life, like January 2 being the "second day" of a new year).

Counting the day as 1 or 0 based on whether you put them in during the morning or the evening would be a way of dealing with the fact that people think a "day" starts at a certain time, while the actual "day" for the eggs starts from the time they go in. For deciding which date (on the human calendar) to lock down and to expect chicks, that probably works well enough, given that eggs can frequently hatch an entire day early or late rather than really doing it all at once.

I included a photo in my original post, candling one of the other eggs in there, um which is about how all the rest of them look. There’s 11 total.

Yes, that is definitely a difference.

It is possible there’s cold spots. The incubator isn’t in a spot that would be getting hit by a draft or anything that would be effecting it’s temperature I don’t think, I have a thermometer in the incubator now but my other two recently stopped working correctly, I’ll try to buy a couple more tomorrow and put them in there too. I will say though the other 10 eggs in there look the same as each other as far as development goes. So I dunno!

Since it's only one odd egg, I am inclined to suspect something with the egg and not the incubator, but I don't know of any way to be certain at this time.

I added a video you can see what’s going on better in there.

I see why you think it might be twins. I don't have enough experience to be sure one way or the other.

 

[SueT]

I can’t tell if there are twins, but I do know that yes, there have been a few successful twin hatchings reported here on BYC. I have followed every twin thread I’ve seen here, I didn’t keep records or anything but the threads must still be here. They all needed assistance in hatching. Many times, both died, in some, one twin survived, and there were some in which both survived.

 

[007Sean]

I can see why you think it's twins but I don't think that egg will develop a chick. Looks to me like it's already on the decline.

 

[Telekinetichicken]

Idk if its just me but I don't see movement, despite veins, it also looks a little behind in development. There could be reasons for this, are you turning the egg? If so how often is this happening? What temp is the incubator and do you have a calibrated thermometer?

No you’re right they aren’t moving that much in the video. Right when I took them out of the incubator they were both wiggling around pretty vigorously, one more than the other though. I didn’t have the egg out very long but they seemed to slow down a lot when I was taking the video
I’ve been turning all of the eggs by hand 3-5 times a day. Temp has been reading about 100 and humidity about 50%. I believe the thermometer i have in the incubator with them is accurate but my other 2 broke recently so I’ll try to double check tomorrow if I’m able to buy a few more.

 

[Kiki]

I added a video you can see what’s going on better in there. And I mentioned this in a previous reply to someone but I counted the day I put them in 10/17 as day 1 as I did so around 5am I believe.. it’s currently 3:45am on 11/1 so in about an hour they’ll have been in there exactly 16 days. If you don’t count the day I put them in, then it would be 15.

It looks dead to me.
Are you sure you aren't seeing movement caused when you are moving the egg?

 

[NatJ]

I can see why you think it's twins but I don't think that egg will develop a chick. Looks to me like it's already on the decline.

It looks dead to me.
Are you sure you aren't seeing movement caused when you are moving the egg?

With the photos and the video, it will be easy to compare in a few days. Live chicks should grow quite a bit over the next few days, while dead chicks will not grow. So as time passes, the difference becomes more and more obvious.

If it actually died a few days ago, that would explain why it is less developed than the other eggs (they kept growing, and if it died it did not keep growing.)

 

[007Sean]

With the photos and the video, it will be easy to compare in a few days. Live chicks should grow quite a bit over the next few days, while dead chicks will not grow. So as time passes, the difference becomes more and more obvious.

If it actually died a few days ago, that would explain why it is less developed than the other eggs (they kept growing, and if it died it did not keep growing.)

At day 16 of incubation you shouldn't be able to see much inside the egg....a few veins near the air cell and possible some movement but the egg should be mostly dark by this stage in the incubation process.

 

[NatJ]

At day 16 of incubation you shouldn't be able to see much inside the egg....a few veins near the air cell and possible some movement but the egg should be mostly dark by this stage in the incubation process.

I agree, if it was growing normally.

But whether it changes in the next few days can help establish whether it is growing (but badly delayed, for unknown reasons) or whether it is already dead.

 

[Telekinetichicken]

It looks dead to me.
Are you sure you aren't seeing movement caused when you are moving the egg?

Thanks. It’s not dead but appreciate the sentiment.

I’m unsure if you read any of my responses to some of the other replies, but I stated it was moving around vigorously before I took the video. It’s pretty easy to tell the difference between the movement of a live embryo squirming around and a deceased one moving as you move the egg, which I’m sure you can agree with. I understand why you asked though considering the video clip I posted.

Having said that, I know the egg looks suspicious and is far behind the others in development, so I’m not counting on it making it much farther although it would be nice if it does somehow! At the time I took the video moments before I started recording at least, it was alive and distinctively squirming around as I stated lol

 

[Telekinetichicken]

The most common counting method I see is based on how long the egg has been in the incubator.

So when you first put them in, they have not been in for any amount of time.
One hour later, they have been in the incubator for one hour.
24 hours after they went in, they have been in the incubator for 24 hours.
By one week later, they have been in for one week. At that point you are on the same day of the week, same time of day, as when they went in.
Scientific writeups of chick development use this method, sometimes even talking about development at specific numbers of hours.

October 17 was a tuesday.
So 7 days was on tuesday, October 24, at the same time as they went in.
14 days was on tuesday, October 31, at the same time as they went in.
15 days is on wednesday, November 1, also at the same time as they went in.
21 days will be on tuesday, November 7, still at the same time they went in, and is when they are expected to hatch (although they can actually hatch earlier or later, this is the typical "hatch on day 21" day).

If you were to count the day they went in as the first day in the incubator, then you would expect them to hatch on the 22nd day (after being in for 21 days, they are starting their 22nd day of incubation.) But that is not how the most common numbering system goes for hatching eggs (although people certainly use it for some other areas of life, like January 2 being the "second day" of a new year).

Counting the day as 1 or 0 based on whether you put them in during the morning or the evening would be a way of dealing with the fact that people think a "day" starts at a certain time, while the actual "day" for the eggs starts from the time they go in. For deciding which date (on the human calendar) to lock down and to expect chicks, that probably works well enough, given that eggs can frequently hatch an entire day early or late rather than really doing it all at once.


Yes, that is definitely a difference.


Since it's only one odd egg, I am inclined to suspect something with the egg and not the incubator, but I don't know of any way to be certain at this time.


I see why you think it might be twins. I don't have enough experience to be sure one way or the other.

Thank you for explaining! That makes a lot of sense, I’ll start counting it that way for future hatchings.
I’m going to get some more thermometers though and check my incubator for hot or cold spots cause I can’t count that out as a possibility or at least a factor.
And yes I’m not sure, but if/when he dies I’ll definitely open it and see what was going on in there. The two spots seem to move independently which is why I assumed there’s two, but it’s possible there’s one that might just be deformed or in a weird position I suppose!