Advice please regarding Calcium needs

[YWoody]

Hello again! I live in Tucson AZ and have my quail outside on ground (mostly sand floor); I keep them as comfortable as possible in summer with an automatic mister & fan, they have ample shade and gravity fed fresh water plumbed to their watering cups. Despite all this, I have one hen, Myrtle, that has gotten egg bound (with prolapse) 2 summer's in a row; interestingly this has occurred on the hottest day of the year both times. Thankfully, and primarily due to the great advice from many of you brilliant folks like @Nabiki, @007Sean, @CliftonQuail and many others, I've been able to get her through both events but not without a lot of STRESS, her suffering & hours of "helping" her through it. Last summer (the first time) a vet had to literally remove the egg from her exhausted little body; and the latest occurrence, I was able to help her pass it using my fingers on her 3rd Epsom salt soak! Both times I administered Calcium Citrate and then kept her in a darken room for a week praying that it would keep her from laying.

I'm really hoping for some feedback regarding increasing Calcium during the summer; I don't want to go through this ever again if I can prevent it!
I'm feeding my coturnix hens Nature's Best Organic All Flock Crumble Poultry Feed, (Calcium is between 0.80-1.20%), and so, I also free feed crushed eggs shells daily for added Calcium. They also get baby greens, sprouts or Dandelion greens daily; and often a slice of apple or a chunk of watermelon rind.
Regarding the egg shells; they act like it's chocolate cake and eat it readily; I provide enough that they never finish it all, so I know they are eating all they want. And interestingly, Myrtle eats more of the Egg shell Calcium than my other hens! Anyway, this works great all year long, until it doesn't! Like I said, on hottest day of the year!
Clearly they need more Calcium in the hot months (or at least Myrtle does!) I'm thinking about (in addition to feeding eggshells) putting Calcium Citrate in their water supply during the hot summer months.... what do you guys think? is this a bad idea, can this result in too much Calcium? What about crushing Calcium Citrate tablets and mixing it well with their Crumble?
Since it hard to determine how much they are getting this way, I'm hesitant.
Or is there a better way to provide enough Calcium during the summer months?
I would love to hear your thoughts...

 

[SmiYa0126]

I would do preemptive higher dose but just for Myrtle, too much calcium is bad for their kidneys

 

[Nabiki]

I wouldn't add the calcium to their water. I might consider giving a small amount to Myrtle only, though since this is her second year, she may not make it to a third. Coturnix quail live 2-5 years for the most part, and with her health issues, she may not have a long life.

 

[YWoody]

I would do preemptive higher dose but just for Myrtle, too much calcium is bad for their kidneys

Thank you very much @SmiYa0126 ! Can you advise amount in milligrams?

 

[YWoody]

I wouldn't add the calcium to their water. I might consider giving a small amount to Myrtle only, though since this is her second year, she may not make it to a third. Coturnix quail live 2-5 years for the most part, and with her health issues, she may not have a long life.

Thank you @Nabiki I appreciate the feedback. what would you consider to be an appropriate dose.

 

[Nabiki]

I would give her a third of the amount you gave her when she was egg bound, but I'm just guessing. You probably want to consult with your vet.

 

[SmiYa0126]

Thank you very much @SmiYa0126 ! Can you advise amount in milligrams?

How much does she weigh?

 

[Susan Skylark]

How about switching everybody to a layer feed with 3.5 percent calcium? Also, I don’t know much about calcium metabolism in quail (or birds!) but I do know dairy cows are actually put on a low calcium diet before calving which may seem counter intuitive as they need high calcium for muscle contractions during labor and calf growth and colostrum production along with imminent milk production but if fed too much calcium during this period their body doesn’t gear up its internal calcium utilization (pulling it from bones etc) at calving, and they can’t take in enough dietary calcium to meet their needs and the result is milk fever (or low blood calcium). But by restricting the calcium a little bit prior to calving the body naturally revs up the system that pulls it out of the bones and keeps the blood levels stable even with sudden extreme demand. Laying birds ‘give birth’ every day along with daily demands for shell production. The biggest symptom of milk fever is a lethargic cold cow that can’t get up, and if actively calving labor stops or uterine prolapse results. The treatment, as for egg bound birds, is immediate administration of calcium. Unafflicted animals are not treated as heart attack can result and long term feeding of too much calcium wreaks havoc with kidneys, joints, and as mentioned calcium metabolism. Feeding a ration balanced for your birds’ needs is much better than trying to guesstimate. If really hot days are a problem, treating prophylacticly for a day or two is fine but long term is a really bad idea.

 

[YWoody]

How about switching everybody to a layer feed with 3.5 percent calcium? Also, I don’t know much about calcium metabolism in quail (or birds!) but I do know dairy cows are actually put on a low calcium diet before calving which may seem counter intuitive as they need high calcium for muscle contractions during labor and calf growth and colostrum production along with imminent milk production but if fed too much calcium during this period their body doesn’t gear up its internal calcium utilization (pulling it from bones etc) at calving, and they can’t take in enough dietary calcium to meet their needs and the result is milk fever (or low blood calcium). But by restricting the calcium a little bit prior to calving the body naturally revs up the system that pulls it out of the bones and keeps the blood levels stable even with sudden extreme demand. Laying birds ‘give birth’ every day along with daily demands for shell production. The biggest symptom of milk fever is a lethargic cold cow that can’t get up, and if actively calving labor stops or uterine prolapse results. The treatment, as for egg bound birds, is immediate administration of calcium. Unafflicted animals are not treated as heart attack can result and long term feeding of too much calcium wreaks havoc with kidneys, joints, and as mentioned calcium metabolism. Feeding a ration balanced for your birds’ needs is much better than trying to guesstimate. If really hot days are a problem, treating prophylacticly for a day or two is fine but long term is a really bad idea.

Thank you very much for this additional insight; very helpful!
Sorry for delayed response; (was offline for quite awhile)

 

[Carterborchers]

Hello again! I live in Tucson AZ and have my quail outside on ground (mostly sand floor); I keep them as comfortable as possible in summer with an automatic mister & fan, they have ample shade and gravity fed fresh water plumbed to their watering cups. Despite all this, I have one hen, Myrtle, that has gotten egg bound (with prolapse) 2 summer's in a row; interestingly this has occurred on the hottest day of the year both times. Thankfully, and primarily due to the great advice from many of you brilliant folks like @Nabiki, @007Sean, @CliftonQuail and many others, I've been able to get her through both events but not without a lot of STRESS, her suffering & hours of "helping" her through it. Last summer (the first time) a vet had to literally remove the egg from her exhausted little body; and the latest occurrence, I was able to help her pass it using my fingers on her 3rd Epsom salt soak! Both times I administered Calcium Citrate and then kept her in a darken room for a week praying that it would keep her from laying.

I'm really hoping for some feedback regarding increasing Calcium during the summer; I don't want to go through this ever again if I can prevent it!
I'm feeding my coturnix hens Nature's Best Organic All Flock Crumble Poultry Feed, (Calcium is between 0.80-1.20%), and so, I also free feed crushed eggs shells daily for added Calcium. They also get baby greens, sprouts or Dandelion greens daily; and often a slice of apple or a chunk of watermelon rind.
Regarding the egg shells; they act like it's chocolate cake and eat it readily; I provide enough that they never finish it all, so I know they are eating all they want. And interestingly, Myrtle eats more of the Egg shell Calcium than my other hens! Anyway, this works great all year long, until it doesn't! Like I said, on hottest day of the year!
Clearly they need more Calcium in the hot months (or at least Myrtle does!) I'm thinking about (in addition to feeding eggshells) putting Calcium Citrate in their water supply during the hot summer months.... what do you guys think? is this a bad idea, can this result in too much Calcium? What about crushing Calcium Citrate tablets and mixing it well with their Crumble?
Since it hard to determine how much they are getting this way, I'm hesitant.
Or is there a better way to provide enough Calcium during the summer months?
I would love to hear your thoughts...

My vet said to crush calcium citrate, add “a pinch” which is technically 1/16 tsp to a bottle cap of food and not giving any more food until it’s completely gone… but that was for one button quail. It dissolves in water. I don’t see why you can mix a small amount in a syringe, use a credit card to open the mouth, and just squirt it in.

Do you leave the eggs in there with them, or collect them daily? My vet advised leaving them, and after she laid 6 or so, she quit laying eggs and it’s helping build up her calcium. I’ve been replacing the old ones with other layer’s eggs since they look the same. I thought she was bound but it was an egg with no shell and she was severely deficient of calcium. So hoping this break will build up the bones. I also offer powdered oyster shells from Amazon and she gobbles it up like nothing else!!!