American game coloration

[centrarchid]

Vcomb,

I may be getting to truth about color pattern I am playing with. I got a little bit of a history lesson from brother about some of the variation I remember of our line. First, birds I remember as redquill were either a battlecross made by crossing our hens with Doc Kniefords to increase size or F2 hybrids of same that also included black birds. The Doc Kniefords existed on our farm only as cocks / stags since not of our breeding and where used only to make the cross. They were nearly black like black Warhorse and pretty big for American games. This would explain my recollection of how our redquill colored birds were not man-fighters as many think being typical of Eslin Redquills. They simply were not Eslin Redquils, only redquill in coloration and most were heterozygous.

Shortly I will upload some picture of hens and chicks that are dead ringers for some of our old color patterns. Should be pretty interesting as the pattern of inheritance indicates incomplete dominance and a color pattern not seen in our chicks for some time has popped up. I think you will find this to be pretty cool!

 

[Vcomb]

Thanks for the update, will look forward to the pics. That's great that you and your brother were able to compare notes.

 

[centrarchid]

I am paying the price for spending so much time taking pictures of same birds over and over. Now missing color variety that would help make my points. Later I will provide more and better.

Photograph below of 11 chicks produced from a trio of birds predicted to be heterozygous for the black restrictor gene that is part of what is needed to make redquill.





Chicks come in three morphs that can be distinguished from dorsal aspect.



Chick to left will mature into a typical Hatch-looking black-breasted red. Middle chick will if male have delayed development of duckwing pattern and coloration that appears a bit dirty like sire first image shown below. If female will look like dam with reduced black in tail and hints of redquill pattern on back and upper wings as shown in next image. The last chick if male will be a some sort of brown-breasted brown red like its grandsire shown in last image. If memory serves, then as a female it will mature into something that looks like a very light redquill.

Sire


Dam


Following birds are parent of sire and one of the dams pictured above. Grandam is typical of black-breasted red female and approximates coloration of red jungle fowl.
Grandsire

Grandam




I predict if the last chick is bred to a black Warhorse, then 100% of chicks will hatch being dark brown with the typical redquill pattern that includes squiggles and dots in head and irregular pattern for dorsal stripe. I am going to get a black Warhorse or similar for test mating next breeding season.

 

[Vcomb]

very interesting. I'll have to photograph my muff chicks, I have some colored similar to the chick on the far right and some on like the ones on the far left. will have to document how they develop to compare them.

 

[centrarchid]

The closest I have seen to chicks on far right that I have expereince with were of the wheaton color type. Difference was the dorsal stripe of wheaton was restricted to head region and areas that where not dark where truely yellow, not with specs all over as shown in chick on right. The other two can be distinguished very consistently as well at hatch. Dorsal stripe of black-breasted red is consistently darker and broader and patch of color on shoulder is also much darker.

 

[froggiesheins]

Found this thread and you guys are WAAY to genetic saavy for me, got lost after reading the first post... .I am an AGF lover but can't have those ghetto blaster boys where I live, think my neighbors would string me up! ....I do have a few "special needs" hens.

I am posting a few pics of my special girls [90% of my chickens have something wrong with them...I am a handicap/rescue gal].
What bloodlines do you think she might have in her??? This is Little Missy a large banty size hen....she was nalnurished and lived in a tiny filthy cage when I rescued her. She has "bowed" legs, balance/ coordination and depth perception problems. She cannot roost or fly....But is such a sweet girl......the other bird in the pic is a full grown serama....



This gal is a 2yr old LF mix.....she had to have an eye removed when it abcessed [got pecked BAD]......She has a real macho set of spurs on her! Here is Girlybird.....


This is my special special loverboy Pharow.........He lost a leg to a freak accident but still gets around SO good. He is also a large banty size and the most beautiful bird I have....He had a peacomb that I had removed when it started falling into his eye.....I also "belong" to him and he will attack any roo that he sees me holding.....


see what I mean by having a bunch of gimps??

 

[centrarchid]

froggiesheins,

I am unable to distinguish games based on looks with the exception of a few color patterns. The name business for lines of games requires knowledge of who bred them. I got mine handed down through at least four generations of grandfathers and I assume no one lied to a son or grandson. Even when color pattern appears to be known, often time such does not breed true since such is generally not of major concern when selecting broodstock.

My grandfather had gimps and blinkers around and some got up in years. Although birds with crooked limbs would have been consumed for Sunday dinner and a very serious look would be taken at feed being used. Birds with crooked limbs is indicative of incompetence at poultry husbandry.

 

[froggiesheins]

froggiesheins,

 I am unable to distinguish games based on looks with the exception of a few color patterns.  The name business for lines of games requires knowledge of who bred them.  I got mine handed down through at least four generations of grandfathers and I assume no one lied to a son or grandson.  Even when color pattern appears to be known, often time such does not breed true since such is generally not of major concern when selecting broodstock.

My grandfather had gimps and blinkers around and some got up in years.  Although birds with crooked limbs would have been consumed for Sunday dinner and a very serious look would be taken at feed being used.  Birds with crooked limbs is indicative of incompetence at poultry husbandry.

WOW, THANK YOU for the education! It seems you have to learn about game birds a little here / a little there, so what you have said about knowing the bloodlines really does help. I love my "junker" birds, they are all pets, the only thing I eat are eggs......

 

[centrarchid]

WOW, THANK YOU for the education! It seems you have to learn about game birds a little here / a little there, so what you have said about knowing the bloodlines really does help. I love my "junker" birds, they are all pets, the only thing I eat are eggs......

The hard part is the husbandry end. The history and names can be well, fictional or at least shy on all the facts. Otherwise, games are the most omnipotent types of birds out there. They smart, hardy, adaptable and well suited for providing the genetics needed for future developement of production breeds and even ornamentals.

 

[tadkerson]

Red quill should be wild type or brown at the E locus, carry gold, carry the pattern gene and the dark brown gene (homozygous for all). Red quill chicks do not look like the chicks in the picture. I agree with you about the chicks in the picture. The chicks with the irregular back markings carry a restrictor.

The dam is an unusual color. I believe she carries some kind of a restrictor in her that is causing the unusual color. She is most likely heterozygous for the restrictor. I do not see any indications that she is carrying the pattern gene. I believe the chick on the right is carrying the same restrictor. The chicks with the unorganized backs ( not chipmunk) are carrying the same restrictor as the dam. The grandsire carries the restrictor that is passed to the dam which is passed on to the chicks. Which is what you said in different words.

I can not see the breast on the sire he does not appear to be restricted.

The dam is not the correct color for a dark brown restricted bird. Dark brown restricted females are ginger red/ she looks buff like. Even if she is heterozygous for dark brown she should look different- she should have more stippling on her back and in her wing feathers etc.and a ginger color. If she is a wheaten/wild type heterozygote then you would get the color you see. It could be that she has some autosomal red going on that is causing the blotchy red/buff color. I have seen the same thing in some of my wheaten birds.

It is interesting that some of her feathers started out a light buff color (the lacing on her flanks) then finished with a darker color.

Tim

I am paying the price for spending so much time taking pictures of same birds over and over. Now missing color variety that would help make my points. Later I will provide more and better.

Photograph below of 11 chicks produced from a trio of birds predicted to be heterozygous for the black restrictor gene that is part of what is needed to make redquill.





Chicks come in three morphs that can be distinguished from dorsal aspect.



Chick to left will mature into a typical Hatch-looking black-breasted red. Middle chick will if male have delayed development of duckwing pattern and coloration that appears a bit dirty like sire first image shown below. If female will look like dam with reduced black in tail and hints of redquill pattern on back and upper wings as shown in next image. The last chick if male will be a some sort of brown-breasted brown red like its grandsire shown in last image. If memory serves, then as a female it will mature into something that looks like a very light redquill.

Sire


Dam


Following birds are parent of sire and one of the dams pictured above. Grandam is typical of black-breasted red female and approximates coloration of red jungle fowl.
Grandsire

Grandam




I predict if the last chick is bred to a black Warhorse, then 100% of chicks will hatch being dark brown with the typical redquill pattern that includes squiggles and dots in head and irregular pattern for dorsal stripe. I am going to get a black Warhorse or similar for test mating next breeding season.