American Reza (Pakistani) Asil

[Tiger747]

Have you considered that either Dr. Clarke imported both mongrel “Cornish / Peasant Malay / Indian Game” as the English-bred, non-game, meat/exhibition variety was then known as, and also actual Asil, true Indian Gamefowl; or, that there was simply a confusion when it came to what to call these fowl in their various forms from “grade Asil” to pure GAME fowl of India known as Asil?

Mr. H. Atkinson wrote that he knew the breed Asil, himself breeding them since 1883, and that he did send to Dr. Clarke some Asil in 1887. Not Cornish. This is made clear and in my opinion is the authority on the matter in a compilation of letters and writing that were published after his death. Please refer to these quotations below from:

‘Cock-Fighting and Game Fowl from the Note-Books of Herbert Atkinson of Ewelme together with the Life and Letters of John Harris, the Cornish Cocker’
Published by George Bayntun, Bath, 1938:

“I have for many years been a lover of the true Indian Game known as Asil. He is the gamest and oldest pure breed of domestic poultry : a wonderful example of breeding for ages for one purpose.” That purpose obviously being combat.

“As I have had no small experience of the breed since the year 1883, both in this country and in India, I have from my own experiences, and from those of Anglo-Indian and native Fancier sportsmen, assisted also by Eastern books on the subject, written this account of the breed.”

“As soon as we had communication with India the Indian breed of Game Cocks became known here, being seen and probably often brought home by Englishmen.
There is a tradition that two cocks of the breed sent home as presents to King Charles the Second sore fought bate Cocks he Royal Pit at Newmarket.
About the year 1760 some Asil Game Cocks were fought and beaten in a main at Market Drayton. Previous to this the picture of an Indian and an English cock doing battle had been painted by Reid, animal painter to King George the Second.”

“When a child of six or seven years old, I was more fond of watching old Tommy’s feathered warriors in their pens than going to school, so that writing is not my forte, but many of the present-day poultry papers both in England and America contain the greatest rot that mercenary fanciers and mushroom breeders of ephemeral experience are capable of writing, while very few of our fancy papers contain anything practical and reliable, thus the one true and fighting Game Fowl of India is constantly mixed up with the fancy worthless Pheasant Malay, now christened " Indian Game" by a certain class of fanciers, and to give colour to the name state they were crossed with birds sent over by Sir George Gilbert, which is without the slightest foundation, for Sir George Gilbert never existed.
Lord Clive brought many home to Shropshire that could not be killed, and would not be stopped. Those imported by Colonel, afterwards Sir Walter Raleigh Gilbert, became extinct long before the advent of the Pheasant Malays, or " Cornish Indian Game," which is one and the same breed.”

“It was here I first met the American, Dr Clarke,' though we had corresponded some years before and I had sent him out Asil Indians since 1887…Dr. Clarke had some good fighting cocks…One evening the Doctor was very pressing to fight a bird against a stag of mine, the only one I had left unfought, barely 5 lbs. ; his proved to be a Jap stag of 6 lbs. I consented for the sport and a bottle of wine; of course, he won though not too easily, the Jap getting badly hurt. This was the only battle I ever fought against the Doctor.” Herbert Atkinson, Bayntun, G., 1938

If you read what Mr. H. Atkinson writes about the Asil, you will know why Asil breeders in the US who also appreciate their history, understand the initial import date of 1887.

As far as Allen Roundhead history goes, what is your point? The earliest literature I have found on the “Boston Roundheads” predates the other Roundheads in America, and was written by Mr. Joseph Wingate. They do not specify where the “pea comb / round head” derives, but that the fowl came over from Ireland to Massachusetts in the 1854-1856 range. When Mr. John Stone, bred brown red to black red “Irish Brown Reds” that had pea combs. This date, is much later than the initial Asil imports to England, which Mr. H. Atkinson states would’ve been at least around 1760.

I think with chickens, the lack of pedigree makes assessing blood lines/origins a fools errand, really. Even Dr.Clarke said he could create a Cornish and not even use what is commonly thought of as parent stock. As far as the Roundheads, I have researched those pretty extensively. I think we would first have to determine what a "Jap" is. It certainly isn't an asil. It isn't a Malay. Idk. Possibly a variety of Shamo. They say Col. F.E. Grist was responsible for adding "oriental" blood to the roundhead. I do not believe this true. Possibly Dr. Fred Saunders of Salem, Mass., who sent roundheads to Grist may have added "Jap." Who knows. Strangely, even writers who were actually there can't get their stories straight. This tells me there is no real foundation upon which to even build a theory. It's pure speculation. Peacomb fowl existed among the Whitehackle bloodline in.Ireland, according to Harry Kearney, Mike Kearney's son. Supposedly the Duryea fowl did not contain a drop of Whitehackle blood. Kind of believable since they were too busy beating Whitehackles, lol. However, Gus Gristhiof states Duryea fired Mike Kearney for adding "Jap" blood via Boston Roundhead from Frank Coolidge to his yard in Kentucky. So, did peacombs in Duryea Boston Roundheads come from fowl Kearney brought over? Or..did Kearney add fowl containing "oriental" whilst managing Duryea's yard in Kentucky? Supposedly, these Duryea Roundheads are the "junk" Duryea told Kearney to take with him on the way out the door. My takeaway from this is that peacomb may be unrelated to "oriental." As far as cockfighting, I fail to see how traits, desirable or otherwise, can be attributed to a family of fowl if that family isn't a family at, but, rather, merely a motley crew.

 

[RFoxfire]

I think with chickens, the lack of pedigree makes assessing blood lines/origins a fools errand, really. Even Dr.Clarke said he could create a Cornish and not even use what is commonly thought of as parent stock. As far as the Roundheads, I have researched those pretty extensively. I think we would first have to determine what a "Jap" is. It certainly isn't an asil. It isn't a Malay. Idk. Possibly a variety of Shamo. They say Col. F.E. Grist was responsible for adding "oriental" blood to the roundhead. I do not believe this true. Possibly Dr. Fred Saunders of Salem, Mass., who sent roundheads to Grist may have added "Jap." Who knows. Strangely, even writers who were actually there can't get their stories straight. This tells me there is no real foundation upon which to even build a theory. It's pure speculation. Peacomb fowl existed among the Whitehackle bloodline in.Ireland, according to Harry Kearney, Mike Kearney's son. Supposedly the Duryea fowl did not contain a drop of Whitehackle blood. Kind of believable since they were too busy beating Whitehackles, lol. However, Gus Gristhiof states Duryea fired Mike Kearney for adding "Jap" blood via Boston Roundhead from Frank Coolidge to his yard in Kentucky. So, did peacombs in Duryea Boston Roundheads come from fowl Kearney brought over? Or..did Kearney add fowl containing "oriental" whilst managing Duryea's yard in Kentucky? Supposedly, these Duryea Roundheads are the "junk" Duryea told Kearney to take with him on the way out the door. My takeaway from this is that peacomb may be unrelated to "oriental." As far as cockfighting, I fail to see how traits, desirable or otherwise, can be attributed to a family of fowl if that family isn't a family at, but, rather, merely a motley crew.

I understand your train of thought. We do not know for certain what occurred, names are misused and thrown around and histories can be contradictory.

I forget where I saw it now, but there are several various strains of Japan gamefowl under the “Shamo” name. There exist(ed) several body types and sizes if you will, and these were likely “Japs”, in various sizes brought over since the US, England, France, whoever had trade and contact with Japan. Shamo, as I understand it, means “Siam”. Tuzo for example, may be an example of what would be called a “Jap”, but look at the size difference.