Are Satins Really Silkies?

[GlicksChicks]

I would love to see your opinion on this topic. Are satins silkies? I will put my opinion.

No, satins are not silkies. So I find it misleading to call them such. Yes, they may have 5 toes and a head crest and come from a silkie parent, but that does not make them a silkie.

How I think of it is that them being called a silkie (despite being a mix of a silkie and a cochin) is like me selling one of my Buff Orpington × Buckeye mixes as Buff Orpingtons because they have the same build and color of a Buff Orpington. No, it is a barnyard mix. Not an Orpington or a Buckeye. So a satin should not be called a silkie. It is a silkie mix.

If you are breeding satins in a silkie flock, then you do not have a pure silkie flock. I wouldn't put a Legbar mix into my Legbar flock and then sell those babies as Legbars. If I did, I know people would get upset. So why is there a different rule for Satins?

All this being said, I am not saying I dislike satins. They are cute, that is for sure. I just don't think they belong to be identified as true silkies. Or be put in a pure silkie breeding flock.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

I would love to see your opinion on this topic. Are satins silkies? I will put my opinion.

No, satins are not silkies. So I find it misleading to call them such. Yes, they may have 5 toes and a head crest and come from a silkie parent, but that does not make them a silkie.

How I think of it is that them being called a silkie (despite being a mix of a silkie and a cochin) is like me selling one of my Buff Orpington × Buckeye mixes as Buff Orpingtons because they have the same build and color of a Buff Orpington. No, it is a barnyard mix. Not an Orpington or a Buckeye. So a satin should not be called a silkie. It is a silkie mix.

If you are breeding satins in a silkie flock, then you do not have a pure silkie flock. I wouldn't put a Legbar mix into my Legbar flock and then sell those babies as Legbars. If I did, I know people would get upset. So why is there a different rule for Satins?

All this being said, I am not saying I dislike satins. They are cute, that is for sure. I just don't think they belong to be identified as true silkies. Or be put in a pure silkie breeding flock.

Even if you have them in a silkie flock, you can tell those chicks apart from silkies as soon as they start feathering out.

If they have every trait a silkie has besides the silkie gene, then I kinda consider them silkies. Just like a silkied cochin has every trait a coaching has besides having normal feathering and just like how a showgirl has every trait a silkie has besides having a feathered neck

 

[GlicksChicks]

Even if you have them in a silkie flock, you can tell those chicks apart from silkies as soon as they start feathering out.

If they have every trait a silkie has besides the silkie gene, then I kinda consider them silkies. Just like a silkied cochin has every trait a coaching has besides having normal feathering and just like how a showgirl has every trait a silkie has besides having a feathered neck

Yes, but once you begin mixing breeds to make those, they are not that breed anymore. Just because they have the same traits except for feather type does not make them that breed.

My Buckeye and Buff Orpington mixes look exactly like a Buff but the only difference is comb type. But I do not call them buff orpingtons, even though you can clearly tell the difference between them and the others because of the clear comb difference.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Yes, but once you begin mixing breeds to make those, they are not that breed anymore. Just because they have the same traits except for feather type does not make them that breed.

That is literally how you make new breeds/varieties. They don't just spontaneously appear

 

[GlicksChicks]

That is literally how you make new breeds/varieties. They don't just spontaneously appear

Yes, I know that. But isn't a requirement of a breed one that breeds true?

If you breed 2 satins together, do you still get a satin? Or just mixes of genetics that come out weird?

You make new breeds by generations of breeding. Not one generation of breeding a cochin to a silkie and thinking you successfully made a breed.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Yes, I know that. But isn't a requirement of a breed one that breeds true?

If you breed 2 satins together, do you still get a satin? Or just mixes of genetics that come out weird?

You make new breeds by generations of breeding. Not one generation of breeding a cochin to a silkie and thinking you successfully made a breed.

If you have two proper satins, where every trait except for feathering is the same as a sikkie, then yes, they should breed true. A 2st generation silkie/cochin cross is not going to have all the same traits as a silkie other than feathering

 

[GlicksChicks]

If you have two proper satins, where every trait except for feathering is the same as a sikkie, then yes, they should breed true. A 2st generation silkie/cochin cross is not going to have all the same traits as a silkie other than feathering

Either way, it is not a silkie. If it can breed true, then it is a different breed altogether.

 

[Slothinc]

I do respect your opinion about satins, even though my opinion differs.

If a bird has satin feathers but every other quality is that of a pure silkie, then I consider them silkies. There are so many beautiful satins out there now that are the result of breeding the original cross back to silkies for many many generations. I have satin silkies that I feel are just as typey as silkies. I personally would rather have a satin silkie from a show breeder than a hatchery quality silkie that lacks in type.

But I do not love when people breed a Cochin to a silkie and call the first generation “satin silkies”. Those should just be called a satin/cochin cross.

Just curious - do you consider frizzled silkies to be silkies? Do you consider showgirl silkies to be silkies? Both of those variations, much like satins, have had one gene bred in to silkies a long time ago and now are considered by most to be purebred silkies. I love all the fun variations that silkies come in, and I own silkies, satins, showgirls and frizzled silkies and satins!

 

[BigBlueHen53]

Sounds like somebody needs to standardize these terms, some governing body perhaps. As it stands now, it seems to me as an outsider reading this, there is no standard and every backyard breeder can use whatever terminology they want. Making it impossible for a novice purchaser to have any idea what they are actually getting when they put their money down. it's like the Wild West of the "Americonna" world out there. Yes, I spelled it stupid on purpose. People have no idea they're getting mutt Easter Eggers when they buy something they think is a pb Ameraucana only to be disappointed when they learn the truth, that they've been conned by "bait and switch" tactics. Its not right.

 

[Slothinc]

Sounds like somebody needs to standardize these terms, some governing body perhaps. As it stands now, it seems to me as an outsider reading this, there is no standard and every backyard breeder can use whatever terminology they want. Making it impossible for a novice purchaser to have any idea what they are actually getting when they put their money down. it's like the Wild West of the "Americonna" world out there. Yes, I spelled it stupid on purpose. People have no idea they're getting mutt Easter Eggers when they buy something they think is a pb Ameraucana only to be disappointed when they learn the truth, that they've been conned by "bait and switch" tactics. Its not right.

True, sadly silkies because of their popularity seem to have an “anything goes” reputation. I think that with any breed, people just need to be careful and know what they are getting when they buy any chicken. See photos of the parents. Make sure they aren’t stolen from a reputable breeder. Many good breeders watermark their photos these days.