Bantams: Avian encephalomyelitis, Enterococcal spondylitis, Mareks or Vitamin deficiency?

[Qbass]

We decided to start our flock a couple of months ago with 8 white California greys and 3 bantams. The bantams were about a week when we got them from a small backyard chicken owner and within a week or so we decided to integrate them with the CGs. Everyone was doing great and we realized shortly, that 2 of the 3 bantams were males, based on their behavior with one another (i.e. posturing toward one another, feathers and combs filling in, etc.) and clearly seeing a difference from the smaller, more timid female. Even though the bantams were quite a bit smaller than the CGS, they did more than fine in terms of "fending" for themselves and were perhaps closer to the top of the pecking order given their behavior... Nevertheless, everyone got along well and there were no issues...

By the time the bantams were about 5 weeks (and CG's were ~8wks... all still in the large brooder as we worked to finish the coop), I found one of the males crying, laying on his side... It seemed obvious that he must have fallen from the perch or got injured accidentally by the bigger chicks. We removed him from that brooder, and put him in with young orpington chicks we had just added in a separate, smaller brooder and monitored his nutrition and status. A few days later, the coop was ready and the CGs and other 2 bantams were ready to transitions to coop living-- or so we thought. The 2nd male had the same sudden onset of symptoms- mainly falling over/walking like he was drunk (ataxia). So we moved the orpington chicks to the larger brooder and set up the 2 brother bantams in the mini brooder (aka rehab center). Over the course of 2 weeks, both maintained good appetites, but their ability to get around worsened a bit.

The 2 were identical when they first moved into rehab- but now we can see a clear difference in growth, the one who was affected first has not being maturing as well as his brother. We call the first one affected "Little Comb" (LC) and his brother "Big Comb" (BC) (since his comb has grown and maintained red color) lol.

Present Day:
We made a sling chair for LC a few days ago, and just made a second one for BC. Tonight they will both have a sling to sleep in- we are hopefully that it will help their legs to come together/heal. LC's legs want to stick straight forward (which is indicated in Enterococcal spondylitis) and when BC tries to hobble around, he does a split- one leg extend backward, the other in front of him. When I set them up to feed, I re-situate their legs underneath them and lightly wrap a wool sock around their bodies to help them stay in place. LC has lost his desire to drink much water, therefore we are adding it into his food- he still has a strong appetite to eat.
They are both getting added supplements in their food/drink, we are using save-a-chick electrolyte solution, poultry booster and nutri-drench. I read recently of using poly-vi-sol without iron, but am unsure if that would be too much added vitamins to what they are already getting.

I apologize for the lengthy post but am hopeful for any insight or advice others may have... I'm also curious if anyone has known of there being potential problems or risks for keeping young roosters in a sling for too long- or if it is ok to give them breaks from being in it? They both fall asleep fast once we get them in (although LC continues to move his legs off and on- not sure if it is voluntary or not... LC also has more spasms than BC).

Thanks so much to anyone who has taken the time to read into our situation!


Below are the links I have found to be insightful so far, perhaps they can be of use to anyone encountering a similar problem!
Symptom Checker:
http://www.poultrydvm.com/views/symptoms.php
Problems that seem likely (symptomology + history/age):
http://www.poultrydvm.com/condition/enterococcal-spondylitis
http://www.poultrydvm.com/condition/avian-encephalomyelitis
Ataxia:
https://wagwalking.com/bird/condition/ataxia
Other Possibilities to consider:
https://www.mypetchicken.com/backyard-chickens/chicken-help/All-about-Mareks-Disease-H377.aspx
https://www.mypetchicken.com/backya...out-Avian-Encephalomyelitis-disease-H257.aspx
https://www.mypetchicken.com/backya.../All-about-Encephalomalacia-disease-H376.aspx
https://www.mypetchicken.com/backya...-about-Nutritional-Myopathy-disease-H373.aspx
https://www.mypetchicken.com/backya...n-cannot-walk-Does-she-have-Marek-s-H248.aspx
https://www.mypetchicken.com/backya...llnesses-with-neurological-symptoms-H395.aspx
Nutritional Deficiencies:
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/nutrition-and-management-poultry/vitamin-deficiencies-in-poultry

 

[Eggcessive]

It sounds more like Mareks disease to me. They can suffer from coccidiosis and other common infections due to a lack of immunity. That might be the reason for not growing, but the lack of mobility may be a cause. Mareks can occur as young as 3-4 weeks, but it is more common in older chicks. Mareks can be tested for with a little blood serum that you supply to a lab, such as Vetdna for about $20, or with a necropsy by the state poultry vet. I am not sure how you would diagnose a spondylopathy unless you get an xray through a vet. I tend to think that a spondylopathy might be more of a possibility if symptoms were seen later on, but I am no an expert on either condition. Here is some reading about Mareks and a link for contacting Vetdna for testing if interested:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/the-great-big-giant-mareks-disease-faq.66077/

http://www.vetdna.com/feedback

 

[Qbass]

Thank you so much for your insights. As he continued to decline, we felt it was best to cull LC over the weekend. We were able to connect with veterinary diagnostics at the university and they recommended bringing in BC as well as the sister who just started to show early symptoms for necropsy. We opted to only bring BC for the necropsy and quarantine the female while we wait for the results, in hopes that it could be something else.
The vet we spoke with when we dropped him off suspects Marek's based on age of onset, symptoms, etc.. but hopefully we will know sooner than later.
In the meantime I am looking into ways that we may be able to help the female (and any others that show symptoms) "recover" if it is Mareks. The vet reminded us that if it is Mareks we need to assume that all of the chickens are carriers and if we were to add to the flock, the newcomers must be vaccinated- even though they will be assumed to be carriers once entered into the flock.
He also recommended purchasing birds from the same breeder to limit the potential for bringing in new diseases... Makes sense now but I certainly wasn't thinking that when I got them from 3 different backyard breeders.

Thanks again for your help!

 

[Stephine]

Thank you so much for your insights. As he continued to decline, we felt it was best to cull LC over the weekend. We were able to connect with veterinary diagnostics at the university and they recommended bringing in BC as well as the sister who just started to show early symptoms for necropsy. We opted to only bring BC for the necropsy and quarantine the female while we wait for the results, in hopes that it could be something else.
The vet we spoke with when we dropped him off suspects Marek's based on age of onset, symptoms, etc.. but hopefully we will know sooner than later.
In the meantime I am looking into ways that we may be able to help the female (and any others that show symptoms) "recover" if it is Mareks. The vet reminded us that if it is Mareks we need to assume that all of the chickens are carriers and if we were to add to the flock, the newcomers must be vaccinated- even though they will be assumed to be carriers once entered into the flock.
He also recommended purchasing birds from the same breeder to limit the potential for bringing in new diseases... Makes sense now but I certainly wasn't thinking that when I got them from 3 different backyard breeders.

Thanks again for your help!

So sorry for your challenges with the chicks. Could you share with us what the results of the necropsy were?