⠀ Best thing for getting rid of roundworms in chickens & also preventing??

[casportpony]

Ok so what is the best way to worm chickens that kills all worms they can get
Quote: Valbazen (albendazole).

-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

MIght be a good idea to get a bunch of *fresh* poo samples from as many birds as possible, put it in one zip lock bag, stir really well and take it to a vet. Any vet should be able to identify worm eggs.

-Kathy

 

[bwolfe]

It's toxic to birds!

-Kathy

what's toxic to birds onion or vinager

 

[JJSS89]

Definitely not vinegar. Apple Cider Vinegar is a magic potion when it comes to raising chickens (and all livestock)

 

[bwolfe]

Onion is toxic to birds.

• http://birds.about.com/od/feeding/tp/poisonousfoods.htm
• http://www.birdtricks.com/blog/unsafe-foods-for-parrots/

-Kathy

never mind I see this post now

 

[casportpony]

Quote: Onion.

-Kathy

 

[dretd]

Quote:

That doesn't make sense to me.

Hi Enola, I am not sure if I can help put the chemistry into words for you. but I will try!

Nutshell: The hens eat nuggets of calcium carbonate where the calcium is bound to a carbonate molecule. When it is tightly bound, the Calcium is not able to be taken up into the bloodstream. The body needs the ion form of the Calcium in order to absorb it. In a solution (ie mixed with water in the gut) and especially in the presence of an acid, the Hydrogen in the acid competes for a binding site with Calcium that now has a looser bond with the carbonate (about 14% of the calcium will be unlocked from the carbonate and be in the form of an ion when it is in the wet state), making that Calcium bioavailable to be absorbed into the bloodstream.

More detail:
The body has to maintain an acid-base balance and generally is very slightly basic/alkaline. Apple Cider vinegar is an acid. It contains acetic acid (as do all other forms of vinegars). Calcium is generally consumed in the form of calcium carbonate, and is written Ca2CO3, meaning it has 2 calcium atoms, 1 carbon atom and 3 oxygen atoms and the calcium is bound to the carbonate (CO3) because they share electrons back and forth. When Calcium carbonate goes into a solution of water, some of the calcium disassociates from the carbonate and you have 2 ions: Ca(+2) and 2 of the CO3 (-1) the parenthetical numbers indicate the charge of the ion. In this case, the Calcium ions have lost the electrons (which are negatively charged) hence the + sign, and the Carbonate have temporarily stolen the electrons and have an extra one, thus the - sign. Here is where the vinegar, an acid, comes in. An acid has an excess of hydrogen atoms (they are actually protons) H+. The chemistry in the intestines changes a bit because of this extra H+. Hydrogen has a positive charge just like the Calcium and will compete with the Calcium to bond with the Carbonate, making more unbound Calcium available to be absorbed into the blood stream. There is an equilibrium that needs to be maintained.

This goes for people too. If you are a female and want to increase your calcium consumption, ingesting the calcium in an acid environment such as orange juice, will enhance your absorption of Calcium. If you have indigestion (too much acid in your stomach) you can take an antacid like Tums (containing Calcium carbonate ) or like Rolaids (containing Calcium carbonate and Magnesium hydroxide, another H+ competitor) because the Calcium in those gets switched out for the excessive hydrogen in the stomach and reduces the acidity of the gastric contents.

Important note with regard to acid and eggshell strength:

Interestingly, there is a counter-intuitive problem with weak eggshells in very hot weather that is caused by this acid-base equilibrium and it can be solved by adding a base (antacid) into the hen's diets---so giving hens vinegar during really hot months may actually make their eggshells thinner!

Here's the deal. When its really hot outside, the hens will pant to help cool themselves down. This increased airflow will blow off a little extra CO2. When the CO2 is removed from the body, it actually changes the acid-base balance and makes the hens a little alkalotic because the carbonic acid buffering system gets thrown off when the CO2 gas is removed from the system. The recommendation is to actually add a little bicarbonate of soda into the diet to offset the Carbon dioxide loss. Connecting the dots--if you have problems with thinner shells in the summer, it would be best to avoid adding extra acid into the system as it could exacerbate the problem.

References for the thinner eggshell:
http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/1003/factors-influencing-shell-quality/ I recommend reading section i, then going to the three part series of articles referenced--most of the relevant information is in the 2nd and 3rd parts.

Here is an an older article that might be easier to read since its more specific to just the acid-base balance:
http://www.fmcchemicals.com/Portals/chem/Content/Docs/Markets/Animal/s-carb2.pdf

In case you are super geeky, here is a link that discusses the chemical equations I neglected to put into my explanation:
http://ion.chem.usu.edu/~sbialkow/Classes/3600/Overheads/Carbonate/CO2.html

tmi?

 

[enola]

Well, I am certainly not geeky, you explained it very well. I had heard the hot weather and thin egg shell theory; that's where my thoughts went off track about vinegar and calcium absorption. Thank you!

 

[8machines]

What wonderful information!! I had no idea!!

 

[SaxaSime]

This is the article I found on Apple Cider Vinegar and Chickens if any of you are interested.

http://poultrykeeper.com/health-suppliments/apple-cider-vinegar