Black Australorp died unexpectedly please help me understand why

[Bawkbok]

Thanks for sharing your story and insight. Happy to hear your girls are (still) good producers. Three is a good age for a production breed.

We were below freezing last night and the two were huddled so close together when I checked on them, Goldie was almost crushed in the corner. I know they love each other's company. Not good for a hen to be a loner. Those girls cannot get here fast enough. I figure the newbies will actually help her or the stress of it all will make things worse --if -- and hoping she makes it that long.

Was just out with the girls for some free range time. It's windy as all get out - 15 mph sustained out of the NE. Goldie was actually eating greens and pickin and peckin today - every day is literally different. She was even waddling and trotting around. She tires easily so I watch for standing and preening, then it's back in. I have them tarped out today given the sustained winds and she is standing in the corner away from the wind where it's calm. I don't want her to get chilled. The sun doesn't really have much warming factor given the wind.

Chickens are quite the adventure and we never know what to expect given how things can turn on a dime.

 

[ManueB]

Well, they were to ship on 2/18 but due to the arctic blast they pushed it back to 2/25. I'm bummed but all is as it ought be I keep telling myself. Not safe to ship them in -24 degree temps. I get that they can't guarantee live arrival in such cold temps.

I added a third pullet to the order since our Goldie (Golden Comet) has taken another turn for the worse (separate thread to read all about it). As she won't be long for this world, I thought increasing the number now is a good idea as all the hatcheries are running low on stock. They told me this is the first year they've run out of started pullets. They had no more heritage breeds available (that happened in less than one week). I swore I would never go with another production breed with all the bad luck we've had with them, but that was my only choice - a Cinnamon Queen. So that's what I did. Who knows, maybe we'll get lucky this time and the bird will actually lay some eggs. That's what this is all about - eggs.

Yesterday, 2/20, was our one year anniversary with having chickens. It's taken me this long to turn my hat around, so to speak, and review and assume the perspective of production. That's why we're doing this and we've been throwing out so much money over the course of the year on this initiative I want to see some return for our investment. As far as Goldie is concerned, I am now prepared to cull her if I think she's too uncomfortable vs. just waiting for nature to run it's course. She can no longer serve in the capacity as trainer for newbies so I'm thinking I should 'release' her before they get here and take the chance on our one and only orpington dealing with being alone until the pullets arrive in another week. These are the issues that plague my mind.

It has certainly been a tough first year of chicken keeping for you. I hope the next one will be smoother !

My first six chickens were battery pullets that due to exceptional circumstances we rescued before they had begun to lay. They were all red hybrids of different types, I wasn't told what exactly. They all died before five, the youngest to die was 27 months ; and five out of six died from reproductive issues. Curiously the one that lived the longest was the most productive layer, and the only one that was still laying the last year.
My uptake on this experience was that high production chickens are not necessarily the best choice to begin with, unless you really see them as livestock. Once you know what you're dealing with... maybe it's different.

Hopefully your cinnamon queen will live up to three or four years and you can have a bit of respite from loosing chickens.

My next experience two years ago buying four point of lay pullets from a breeder was also pretty bad, I have to say, two leghorns and two cross Marans x harko that I quickly saw had grown up in poor conditions and were unhealthy. I've had overall much more luck with chicks that hatched here. I think it helps that they grow up and get to build their immune system in the environment they will live in.

As for Goldie, culling is a personal decision and I suppose you've already thought and read and discussed about this. I'll just throw in something from my experience with my ex-battery hens that might be a bit different perspective. I've come to think after those four years with them that pain is only one of many criterias to take in account. Some chickens can stand pain for days and still enjoy moments where they sunbathe, do chicken things, show that they want to live, and fight for it. And those production hens may have fragile genetics, but some are really tough at fighting and will actually get better for a few more months.
Other chickens will show that they've given up, even if they are not actually being in pain or really uncomfortable for a long time. They isolate themselves, they just don't want to anymore. I try to watch for those signs, at least if they are obvious.

I've found that the usual saying that once you see a chicken is unwell it's already too late, was completely off for my ex-batts.

 

[FunClucks]

Thanks for sharing your story and insight. Happy to hear your girls are (still) good producers. Three is a good age for a production breed.

We were below freezing last night and the two were huddled so close together when I checked on them, Goldie was almost crushed in the corner. I know they love each other's company. Not good for a hen to be a loner. Those girls cannot get here fast enough. I figure the newbies will actually help her or the stress of it all will make things worse --if -- and hoping she makes it that long.

Was just out with the girls for some free range time. It's windy as all get out - 15 mph sustained out of the NE. Goldie was actually eating greens and pickin and peckin today - every day is literally different. She was even waddling and trotting around. She tires easily so I watch for standing and preening, then it's back in. I have them tarped out today given the sustained winds and she is standing in the corner away from the wind where it's calm. I don't want her to get chilled. The sun doesn't really have much warming factor given the wind.

Chickens are quite the adventure and we never know what to expect given how things can turn on a dime.

I'm glad Goldie is doing well today. That's comforting. Hopefully this cold snap will finish soon, so we can go back to regular cold weather instead of this below zero stuff - it's just not normal in Alabama either, and my girls don't like it. Sounds like you're having a wonderful day with your girls, wish I could do that!

Since this is your first replacement flock, I don't know if you've run across this info before, so I thought I'd mention it - old girls and new pullets don't become "one flock" until everyone starts laying eggs. The pullets will be their own sub flock, and the old, currently laying hens will be their own (much more important!) sub flock, who will delight in lording it over the youngsters. The old and young flocks will probably roost in different locations if given the opportunity, and the older hens will hang out in the most desirable areas of the coop/run, and chase the youngsters away from any interesting food until they've had their fill, etc. If the coop is too small, you may have trouble getting the youngsters to go inside at night, because they're trying to maintain distance from the older hens.

Always make sure there are areas the youngsters can run to to "hide" or "escape" from the older hens - mainly areas that are shorter, with narrower openings, lots of run clutter to break up line of sight. Make sure you have multiple feed and water stations so the older hens can't guard them all from the younger ones. You want the young ones to be able to sneak up and drink or eat without the older ones seeing them and chasing them away. I had some pullets that would literally hide within pallets (not under or behind, but inside them!) to escape from older hens. I had to carefully fish one out a couple times once she started getting a bit too big to fit.

Once everyone starts laying, the older hens will allow the youngsters to roost with them, and they may become one flock, although you may see the older hens still prefer the company of their older flockmates, and insist on being "head hens". Over time, the pecking order may shift as youngsters get bigger than older hens, and/or become more confident, but that can take months to a year after start of lay. A laying hen is not fully mature until after she's gone through her first molt around 18 months old, you may even see some plumage change in some breeds after that first adult molt.

When hens go broody there is a large hormonal shift also, whether they raise chicks or not, and that can help certain hens become more confident. I had one hen that was middle of the flock, who I let sit and raise chicks during her second year, and she went from middle of the flock to practically head hen while she was raising those chicks. Once they were 2-3 weeks old, I opened up the gate so she and her chicks could mix again with the rest of the flock (they'd been in eyesight but not physically connected), and my broody momma attacked every single hen who came near or tried to mess with her chicks, including the head hen. I was so proud of her - she was an awesomely protective momma to those chick, absolutely confident and fearless. As a result, everyone left her alone. Once chicks were raised, her hormones went back to normal and she wasn't so confident, so she went back to mid-level again, but not as low as before. It was a fun process to watch.

 

[Bawkbok]

My uptake on this experience was that high production chickens are not necessarily the best choice to begin with, unless you really see them as livestock. Once you know what you're dealing with... maybe it's different.

I agree with your insight. I promised myself I wouldn't do anymore hybrids since our legal number is so low, but I am apparently changing (maturing) into the mindset of livestock as I want eggs sooner than later. I know it's a crap shoot with hybrids and I must be willing to accept the potential of another fubar non laying, sick chicken but I am willing to accept that risk. I'd like to see us get some return (eggs) on this huge investment. Start ups are always financially draining, no matter the initiative. I've been acquiring the necessary equipment to "manage" (cull) as required.

I've had overall much more luck with chicks that hatched here. I think it helps that they grow up and get to build their immune system in the environment they will live in.

I want to get to this point but we are not there yet. I wanted to get my chicken feet wet, so to speak, learning how to care for them and surpassing the critical stage of the first 12 weeks of life. My intention is to learn all about rearing chicks and to get/make a brooder for next year. We will have to enlarge the current space or set up another area for babies.

And those production hens may have fragile genetics, but some are really tough at fighting and will actually get better for a few more months.

This is an interesting perspective, thank you for sharing your experience. As an example to support your knowledge, yesterday Goldie was her old self, actually running around, scratching all over the place, eating greens, found a couple of bugs, totally engaged in life and even chased Opal (the Orpington) to steal a bug she found. She didn't succeed but I was elated to see her effort. It was as though she had never been sick. She sun bathed for over half an hour. Every day is literally different. She continues to be our mystery hen. As long as she is 'loving life' she will live. I don't want her in pain and it's difficult for me to determine when or if she is. I am amazed at their resiliency.

 

[Bawkbok]

Since this is your first replacement flock, I don't know if you've run across this info before, so I thought I'd mention it - old girls and new pullets don't become "one flock" until everyone starts laying eggs.

I was not aware of this, so this won't occur until later this fall. Yikes

The old and young flocks will probably roost in different locations if given the opportunity, and the older hens will hang out in the most desirable areas of the coop/run, and chase the youngsters away from any interesting food until they've had their fill, etc. If the coop is too small, you may have trouble getting the youngsters to go inside at night, because they're trying to maintain distance from the older hens.

This may present a problem for us as we have an Omlet Cube. I wanted to have an extra coop and run space separate for longer term purposes and to keep them separated for a few months but we are not in a position to make this happen soon enough. I will have to hope for the best. With warmer weather not far around the corner, perhaps they will choose to roost outside in the run vs. the coop. I'm not concerned about predation with the current set up.

Always make sure there are areas the youngsters can run to to "hide" or "escape" from the older hens - mainly areas that are shorter, with narrower openings, lots of run clutter to break up line of sight. Make sure you have multiple feed and water stations so the older hens can't guard them all from the younger ones.

There are multiple places to perch and the run is full of 'junk', logs, limbs, stools, etc. I will be setting up the additional drink/eat station today so the current hens get used to seeing it there (the whole change freaks them out thing), and placing the feeders out but keeping them empty. I've go so much junk in the trunk that I'll have to probably rearrange so they have a safe spot to not feel cornered. Problem is, Goldie and Opal use every square inch of the run which is 108 square feet. That's going to look crowded to me for five birds but according to the spacing guidelines it should be ok, right?

Goldie was the leader, it is now Opal. Not too surprising I guess given Goldie's varying health status.

I was sitting in the run last night and Opal was pecking at me all over, I put her in my lap, felt her crop and belly and let her sit there until she opted to jump down. She went behind me and I suddenly felt both her feet hit me in the middle of my back. She jumped up and kicked me in the back. What is up with that????? New chicken behavior I'm not familiar with. Is this aggression?

Thanks for the insight and comments. I appreciate everyone's input.

 

[WingItRanch]

I've never heard of a pullet/hen sneaking up behind and flogging! My cockerel did that to me.

 

[Bawkbok]

I've never heard of a pullet/hen sneaking up behind and flogging! My cockerel did that to me.

I didn't know how to respond or react so I ignored her and walked away. She's getting really assertive since Luna died but she is still respectful to Goldie in every way. It will be interesting to see how she reacts to the newbies. I'm nervous / anxious about the whole thing for some reason.

 

[WingItRanch]

Can I recommend you start a new thread introducing your pullets when you get them? I'd love to hear how the integration goes. I have 10 pullets that will be a year old in a month. I also have 8 baby chicks in a brooder. I'm also nervous about integrating when the time comes.