Bobwhite quail with a big problem, help/advice needed (pics)

[grouse]

I've been raising a small number of Bobwhite quail in my backyard since early last summer; they're about 10 months old and have all been perfectly healthy up until now. Yesterday when I went out to feed them I noticed that one of them didn't run outside when I entered the shed that they're in (half of their enclosure is inside the shed, the other half is an outdoor flight pen that they access through an opening) which I thought was strange but I didn't make too much of it. When I went in again today I noticed the same thing from the same male so I tried to figure out what the problem was; I got him to move, but he'd only clumsily run about a foot and then stop and stay still with his eyes mostly closed and his feathers puffed out.

So then I reached in to pick him up (the fact that I was able to do this is a pretty good indicator that something's wrong) and I discovered that he had a giant mass of solid poo stuck to his underbelly/tail/rear end area. And I mean seriously giant...it was easily half as big as he was if not bigger. I carried him inside and spent the better part of an hour trying to clean the mess off of him in the sink with warm water and a wet rag...I didn't get all of it but the majority is now gone and I'm pretty sure the vent is clear now. I didn't try and get the rest off since I didn't want to stress him out for any longer than absolutely necessary. Here are two pictures I managed to get of under his tail after I had finished: (click for full size)


It's not totally gone but it's a lot better than it was and I believe you can see that the vent is clear in the bottom pic. After this I put him in a cardboard box with straw, food and water in it and put a space heater in the room to keep it warm. He hasn't eaten or drank and in fact hasn't moved at all from where I set him down in the box an hour or so ago but is still upright and breathing; I can now see some fresh poo that looks to be entirely white and wasn't there before but I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing.

So I guess my questions are:
-Is there anything else I can or should do now to try and help him recover?
-What's likely to have caused this to begin with?
-And finally, does this sound like the signs of a disease or infection that could potentially spread to the rest of the quail?

Any help or advice would be much appreciated. Thanks!

 

[BobwhiteQuailLover]

Could it be worms???

 

[BarnYardBirds]

I know my baby chickens get this sometimes never had a quail get it.. You might want to check to see tht the others one dont have anything wrong with them either. You had mentioned you had in a flight pen.. Is the ground dry and not wet... ???

good you have it seperate from the others. It is a 50 chance he will make it..

I had some issus withmy healthy birds like this all of a suddent getting ill.. A friend had given me some medicine you can add to there to there water.. I know its very expensive .. I cant remember the name.. If anyone knows what its called...I think its like ironaide somehting like that but exactly.. I know I wasnt much help but maybe someone will know it..

 

[JJMR794]

WHAT ARE YOU FEEDING THEM?
WHEN WAS THEY LAST TIME THEY WERE WORMED?
LAST BEDDING CHANGE IN THE SHED?
WHAT TYPE OF SURFACE ARE THEY ON WHEN OUTSIDE IN THE RUN?
HOW LONG HAVE YOU HAD THEM?
ARE THEY EXPOSED TO ANY OTHER BIRDS WHATSOEVER?
THIS PEN.. IS IT NEW TO THEM OR HAS IT BEEN USED FOR SOMETHING ELSE IN THE PAST? AND IF SO WHAT?

THE CONDITION IS PASTY BUTT, BUT AT ADULT AGES IT IS VERY UNCOMMON. USUALLY CAUSED FROM THE WRONG DIET IN QUAIL BABIES BUT MAY BE A SIDE EFFECT OF ILLNESS IN THIS CASE???

THE FACT THAT THE BIRD IS #1 BOB WHITE, AND #2 OBTUNDED AND LETHARGIC FROM THIS PARTICULAR AILMENT, AS UNSAVORY AS IT IS, I HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH THE 50-50 CHANCE. IN MY EXPERIENCE ONCE THIS FAR DOWN THEY OFTEN TIMES DO NOT BOUNCE BACK (AND PLEASE LET ME STRESS THAT I HOPE HE PROVES ME WRONG! I AM NOT A CHUCK IT AND FORGET TYPE OF PERSON AND I WILL HELP ALL I CAN I SIMPLY STATE THIS AS A PRECAUTION FOR YOU TO BE PREPARED FOR A POSSIBLY UGLY ENDING HERE)

1ST OFF GIVE HIM SOME VITAMIN/ ELECTROLYTE WATER WITH A TAD OF SUGAR TO BOOST HIM UP TIL BETTER INFO COMES ALONG

 

[grouse]

Sorry for the late update -- sadly he didn't make it much longer than a few hours after I made the original post here.
I took the body to an avian vet for a necropsy to see what they find and hopefully that will provide some solid answers.

To answer your questions...

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Purina Game Bird Breeder Layena

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They haven't been; this is my first time raising quail and I wasn't aware that they were supposed to be wormed. I'll definitely look into this now though. Is there a certain brand or medication I should be giving them?

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About a week or so prior to discovering the sick quail. I use straw as their bedding.

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The ground. It started out as partly grass but they devoured that pretty quickly so it's been just hard, rocky dirt since then. From December through mid March it was covered entirely in snow/ice and for the past 2 weeks or so it's been mostly ice which has been melting into shallow mud puddles when the sun is out on the warmer days. However, when I first noticed that something was wrong with the bird it was during a cold snap so the outdoor run was entirely frozen and had been for the previous several days.

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Since last June.

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They're not in the same pen as any other birds and never have been but I do have another 7 quail in a pen that runs adjacent to theirs and they're separated by a wall of half-inch wire. The other 7 quail have been in there since late last fall and none of either group of quail has shown any signs of illness up until now. I also have a flock of 13 chickens in another enclosed pen, separate from the two quail pens and shed, about 10 feet away. The chickens have been there since before the quail arrived and the quail haven't shown any signs or symptoms of infection or illness in their ~10 months of being on the same property as the chickens and ~5 months of having neighboring quail.

I should mention that I did have a few unexplained chicken deaths late last summer -- two chicks that died within 24 hrs of arriving in the mail and a hen that died a few weeks later for unknown reasons -- but I also had the chicks' tested for disease or infection since I was concerned about the quail infecting them or vice versa and the tests all came back negative so I assume it was just stress from shipping. As for the hen, after she died I took her to a local animal doctor who examined her and couldn't find anything strange or any obvious cause of death other than that she hadn't been eating but the rest of the flock was perfectly normal so I don't think that was the result of an infection either.

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The pen was built specifically for them and they're the first birds that have been in it.

 

[grouse]

I thought of another thing I should mention: 4 or 5 days before I noticed the sick quail there was an incident where the lid of their enclosure in the shed had been left open on accident and, judging by the droppings all over the inside of the shed the next morning, it was apparent that many of them had gotten loose in there overnight. The shed is small and escape-proof so there was no way for them to get out (I counted them all several times anyway) and no real trouble for them to get into while they were loose in there, but the timing between the lid being left open and the quail becoming sick does seem like it might not just be coincidence. The only other thing in there besides four walls, a door, a floor and a closed window is a bag of their food so I don't know what they could've gotten into or been exposed to while loose in there that would do them any harm but I'm thinking that maybe they got freaked out by their new surroundings and that the one quail might have flown into a wall or window too hard. I'm not sure how that would result in the severe "pasty butt" condition several days later, but I figured it was worth mentioning.

Thanks again for the help; I'll post back with updates as I get them.

 

[JJMR794]

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Purina Game Bird Breeder Layena THATS A GOOD FEED, IF IT WERE OLD PERHAPS, BUT THEN ALL WOULD BE ILL FROM IT SO THATS NOT LIKELY...

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They haven't been; this is my first time raising quail and I wasn't aware that they were supposed to be wormed. I'll definitely look into this now though. Is there a certain brand or medication I should be giving them? WAZINE AND IN THE FALL IF YOU CAN GET IT FRESH RAW PUMPKIN, IDEALLY THEY SHOULD BE WORMED ABOUT EVERY 3 MOS WHEN ON THE GROUND

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About a week or so prior to discovering the sick quail. I use straw as their bedding. STRAW WILL HOLD MOISTURE AND MILDEW PRETTY READILY, BEING CONFINED TO A GROUND PEN IS DIFFICULT WITH BOBS ESPECIALLY, THEY ARE PRONE TO ENTERITIS EASILY.

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The ground. It started out as partly grass but they devoured that pretty quickly so it's been just hard, rocky dirt since then. From December through mid March it was covered entirely in snow/ice and for the past 2 weeks or so it's been mostly ice which has been melting into shallow mud puddles when the sun is out on the warmer days. However, when I first noticed that something was wrong with the bird it was during a cold snap so the outdoor run was entirely frozen and had been for the previous several days. HERE'S THE BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH BOBS ON THE GROUND... THEY ARE EXCEPTIONALLY PRONE TO ENTERITIS (WHICH WOULD ACCOUNT FOR POSSIBLE PASTY BUTT SYNDROME IN ADULTS) BEST SUGGESTION I CAN MAKE HERE IS REMOVE ABOUT 6 INCHES OF TOP SOIL IN THAT PEN AND REPLACE IT WITH PLAY SAND WHICH DRAINS MUCH MUCH BETTER AND CAN BE "CLEANED" PERIODICALLY BY RAKING AND AGGITATION OR EVEN BLEACHED FROM TIME TO TIME

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Since last June. WELL THAT RULES OUT IMPORTING SICK BIRDS SO FAR AS THE QUAIL THEMSELVES... SO IT HAS TO BE SOMETHING THATS ALREADY THERE

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They're not in the same pen as any other birds and never have been but I do have another 7 quail in a pen that runs adjacent to theirs and they're separated by a wall of half-inch wire. The other 7 quail have been in there since late last fall and none of either group of quail has shown any signs of illness up until now. I also have a flock of 13 chickens in another enclosed pen, separate from the two quail pens and shed, about 10 feet away. The chickens have been there since before the quail arrived and the quail haven't shown any signs or symptoms of infection or illness in their ~10 months of being on the same property as the chickens and ~5 months of having neighboring quail. READ THE STRINGS DEALING WITH CHICKENS AND QAUIL, THIS CAN AND WOULD BE THE MOST LIKELY SOURCE OF ILLNESS.. TIME REALLY CAN BE DECEIVING ON THIS 1 BECAUSE IT DOESNT NECESSARILY HAPPEN RIGHT AWAY, THATS WHY LOTS OF FOLKS TRY IT AND SAY THEY NEVER HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT--- ITS NOT SO MUCH IF BUT MORE LIEKLY WHEN

AND YOU'LL FIND BOBS TO BE WAY MORE FRAIL TO ILLNESSES THAN COTURNIX

I should mention that I did have a few unexplained chicken deaths late last summer -- two chicks that died within 24 hrs of arriving in the mail and a hen that died a few weeks later for unknown reasons -- but I also had the chicks' tested for disease or infection since I was concerned about the quail infecting them or vice versa and the tests all came back negative so I assume it was just stress from shipping. As for the hen, after she died I took her to a local animal doctor who examined her and couldn't find anything strange or any obvious cause of death other than that she hadn't been eating but the rest of the flock was perfectly normal so I don't think that was the result of an infection either. SHIPPED BABIES GET STRESSED AND DIE... SO THAT 1'S A FREEBY

THE HEN THAT WASNT EATING... DID THEY DO A NECROPSY ON HER? POSSIBLE GAPE WORMS? I KNOW MOST ILLNESSES WILL LIST ANOREXIA AS A SIGN (WHICH MAKES IT RATHER WORTHLESS AS A DIAGNOSTIC TOOL TO HELP NARROW DOWN THE CAUSE) BUT WORMS COULD FIT BOTH OCCURANCES HERE?? AND WOULDNT LIKELY BE A BIG PROBLEM DURING THE WINTER UNTIL THE GROUND STARTED TO THAW...

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The pen was built specifically for them and they're the first birds that have been in it.

HOPEFULLY IF IT IS A PARASITE OR ILLNESS PROBLEM YOUR VET WILL FIND IT ON THE NECROPSY SO YOU CAN CONCENTRATE ON GETTING IT CORRECTED BEFORE FUTURE LOSSES OCCUR

 

[grouse]

I heard back from the bird vet and there's good news and bad news. The good news is that they couldn't find any signs of a parasite and also no worms to be found. They also told me that the bird didn't die of a common disease which I now can't remember the name of...I think it may have been Coccidiosis. The bad news is that they're still not totally sure what the problem was or what may have caused it; the best guess the vet gave me was a bacterial infection of some sort, noting that the intestines looked irritated although the rest of the bird seemed normal.

I've been watching the rest of the quail and they all seem fine and are behaving normally so I'm hoping it was a one time thing. Is there anything else I should be doing to prevent this from happening to the rest of the birds?

It might also be worth mentioning that a few days before I found the sick bird I dragged up some brush and cut down some evergreen branches (pine and fir I believe) and put it all in their outdoor run so it would give the birds a place to hide if/when they grow more aggressive towards each other. I saw several of them pecking at the needles on the pine and fir branches when I first put them in but I don't know if they were actually eating the needles or not. If they were, would that possibly be the cause of something like what happened to this quail? Thanks again for the help.

 

[aprophet]

wild birds are sometimes carriers of disease