Breeding Hybrid/Commercial Birds bad idea?

[Gammond]

This is some advice I was given from a heritage hatchery farm in BC regarding ISA brown breeding:

Using a hybrid commercial bird for a cross will give you very surprising results because the different traits of all 4 grandparent lines will sort independently, and the combination that makes the ISAs good layers will fall apart.

This is why, in a previous thread, I was concerned about crossing my White Leghorns with my Ameracaunas.

Thoughts? It might just be biased advice, but there might be something to it?

 

[ChickenCanoe]

The advice is accurate.
The same is true of breeding any hybrid.
However, that shouldn't preclude you from crossing leghorns with ameraucanas if that's what you want to do.
I assume you're trying to get a prolific layer of blue-green eggs?

 

[lazy gardener]

Consider the source of that recommendation: a hatchery who has a vested interest in seeing to it that the BY chicken keeper keeps buying hatchery birds.

Consider the genetics of the hybrid production layer: She was bred to produce lots of eggs, and she is most likely efficient in her feed to egg conversion.

Consider the bird you are bringing to the mix. Is it a LF with a reasonable reputation for being a good layer? Or is it a bird that is not a good layer, a small bird? For example, if I wanted to breed a good BY mix layer, I would not use a Silkie for my rooster!

Hybrid vigor: Generally, by mixing different breeds, you end up with a mutt that is more disease resistant than the pure bred animal.

Surprises. Yeah. It can be a curse, or it could be a blessing. Certainly, it may be a Forrest Gump experience: "Like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get."

Some BY mixes can be controlled so that the breeder has a reasonable expectation of what the outcome will be. I like putting my EE roo over a barred or cuckoo patterned hen. In the case of a PBR, I will end up with a black sex linked bird with a pea comb. 50% of them will produce a lovely aqua colored egg. If my EE roo carried 2 blue egg genes, ALL of his daughters would produce aqua colored eggs. If I put my EE roo over a Dominique, I'll get the same egg color percentages, but the BSL birds will have a lovely little walnut comb, which I absolutely adore.

To make a long story short, I would absolutely put any production birds I had into my breeding mix. However, I choose not to buy production birds b/c of their propensity towards reproductive issues.

 

[Gammond]

I assume you're trying to get a prolific layer of blue-green eggs?

Yes that's correct - also with the smaller comb for our cold winters.

I understand that there are the "old style" leghorns.. mine are from Rochester Hatchery.. I guess I will see how everything turns out in a few years!

 

[R2elk]

This is some advice I was given from a heritage hatchery farm in BC regarding ISA brown breeding:

Using a hybrid commercial bird for a cross will give you very surprising results because the different traits of all 4 grandparent lines will sort independently, and the combination that makes the ISAs good layers will fall apart.

This is why, in a previous thread, I was concerned about crossing my White Leghorns with my Ameracaunas.

Thoughts? It might just be biased advice, but there might be something to it?

When crossing hybrid birds just as with saving seeds from hybrid plants, you have no idea what you are going to get. If you know what the hybrid's parentage is then you can use that information to better help you to understand what your dealing with and what different breedings may bring about.

In the case of the white leghorns, they are not a hybrid and you know what you are starting with. If you actually have Ameracaunas then you can look up their breed traits to see what your F1 generation results will be.

A popular mating is white leghorn hens with cream legbar rooster to produce an F1 generation that is known as a Sapphire. If the rooster has two blue egg genes and two crested genes you can expect that all the offspring produced will have one white egg gene and one blue egg gene which means that any pullets will lay a light blue egg. All of the offspring will also have one crested gene and one non crested gene.

The leghorn will contribute a larger egg size and a greater laying frequency.

A white leghorn cross with a pure ameracauna would produce similar results.

 

[lazy gardener]

BTW, you share my goal: a BY mix that produces a colorful egg basket and has a small comb. I also loathe feathered feet. No feathered feet allowed on my property!!!!

 

[Ridgerunner]

I'm pretty sure I responded on your other thread, this sure sounds familiar. Hopefully I won't say too much different this time.

When you cross to chickens, whether they are the same breed, different breeds, barnyard mixes with all kinds of mixed up parentage, or hybrids of known parentage the offspring inherits traits from both parents. The genetics are pretty complicated and different genes can go together different ways, but the offspring are usually somewhere in between the two parents. There can be exceptions, but usually not a lot. The ISA browns are hybrids but everything about them is pointed toward producing lots of nice large eggs. If you cross ISA Browns with another bird that should have decent egg laying genes you will normally get a pullet that lays a lot of pretty nice eggs. They probably won't be quite as large as an ISA Brown's eggs, they may not lay quite as many or start producing quite as early, but you should get some really nice pullets that lay a lot of really nice eggs. You may get some that don't but that should be very few. You will probably be quite happy with that cross. If you cross those Ameraucana and they are true Ameraucana you should get green eggs from the pullets. Since this ISA Browns are hybrids you could easily get different shades of green.

The same thing is true of those Leghorns. Leghorns usually lay a lot of nice large white eggs. You should be happy with that cross too. The main difference is that since the leghorns lay white eggs you will probably get all blue eggs that pretty much look alike.

When you cross those production birds with dual purpose birds the offsprings' egg-laying does not fall apart and become a disaster. The production will probably not be quite as good as the straight production bird, but the vast majority of the time it will be better than the straight dual propose bird.

By the way, by crossing production birds with dual purpose birds the offspring tend to have a lot less of those reproductive issues LG was talking about.

Personally if you want a nice egg basket I'd get a few ISA Browns and a few leghorns to breed to those Ameraucana roosters. That should give you both green and blue eggs. If you leave your Barred Rock rooster in with them you'll also get some brown egg producers. But yes, do not use that Silkie rooster for your goals.

 

[Gammond]

BTW, you share my goal: a BY mix that produces a colorful egg basket and has a small comb. I also loathe feathered feet. No feathered feet allowed on my property!!!!

Exactly... my feathered footed birds get a little gross looking.. However, I don't mind my Ameracauna/Black copper maran mixes... they only have a few feathers on the sides

 

[Mrs. K]

To really have things fall apart, is when you do the mixing for years and multiple generations. Not going be a lot of weird or mis-formed birds, but maybe birds that don't lays as much, are weird colors, maybe over time, less thrifty.

Chickens are not real long lived, and most likely they will die before they totally mess of the genetics. Every so often get a good rooster, of a breed of good characteristics that cover your weakness and you will be good to go. Roosters are a dime a dozen, and it is rather amazing how a good rooster will improve your flock.

I was just reading on Sandhill Preservation, who got hit hard by predators. Everyone nearly has predator problems one time or other, and then you start over... don't fret it. One can MAKE long term plans for chickens, but I will be danged if I have ever got one to go.

MRs K

 

[chickens really]

Rocherter Hatchery will give you accurate advise...That is why I cross my Brahma Rooster with Orpington Hens..I get fantastic looking Birds...Try it and if the results are not what your wanting? Try something else...
Best of luck...