Breeding our own 'meats'...etc etc

[Molpet]

So this is what came out. 100% fertility on 14 eggs. One quitter, so 13 eggs into the hatcher and 13 chicks came out. This has been my best hatch ever. And certainly the most colorful.

I can't really read the combs right now they are so small and I don't want to irritate them too much until I've made sure they all have had a drink and feed.

A couple of the yellow ones have darker areas in their down. The dark chipmunky looking ones look like the DC. The red chipmunky, I imagine could be RIR × DC, I think all the red ones all have lighter bellies, but not 100% sure as they are running around too much. View attachment 3762324

I have had some f2 that started as yellow chicks and ended up looking closer to the dark Cornish grandad

 

[Ridgerunner]

This correct gene in the whites has me a little concerned, though. Had no idea. I should have made a special request when I ordered the chicks! Haha.

Not all white hens give sex linked chicks with a red rooster. It depends on the genetic make-up. White Leghorns practically never do. White Rock sometimes do. There are two ways to genetically make a solid white chicken, Dominant White paired with Black and Recessive White with anything as long as both genes at that gene pair are Recessive White. White Leghorns are typically Dominant White with a black base. Sine both are dominant genes one of each should be passed to the offspring so all chicks should be white with practically any rooster, at least in the first generation.

White Rocks is where it gets tricky with a lot of "if's". If they are Recessive White, which most are, you only have one copy of the Recessive White gene in the offspring with a rooster that does not have Recessive White. That recessive white gene will have no effect in that generation. If a White Rock hen has the Silver gene you can get red sex linked chicks from her as long as her base color is not black. Some breeders include Silver in a White hen to make her "whiter". It suppresses Black leakage. Sometimes Silver is included so you can make sex linked chicks.

You can ask the hatchery if you can make red sex linked chicks with their White Rocks. They might or might not know. The person on the phone or that answers an email may not even know what you are talking about. Conformation would be hatching eggs from a known rooster with a known hen.

That is a nicely colored group of chicks. The way I understand it you had White Rock and Dark Cornish hens and roosters in the same flock those eggs came from. And the RIR hen. You may have some sex links in there, you may not. When the parents are mixed like that you can never be sure.

I can't really read the combs right now they are so small

It is really hard to sex chicks at hatch unless they are sex links. Occasionally I can make a realistic guess pretty early, males are more likely to have an upright posture and a certain body shape. The girls are harder to be sure. For the vast majority the signs of male versus female don't show up until they are four or five weeks old. I've had some I could not be sure until they were about 4 months old.

One sign can be the comb and wattles. A male is more likely to have a larger comb and show some wattles. They are also more likely to be a bright red. The girls are more likely to have a yellow or pale orange comb, if they show any, and tend to not show wattles until a later age. You'll notice I'm using a lot of weasel words like "likely" and "tend". None of this is always.

Another sign is that the males tend to be bolder. They will come out to greet you and check you out where the girls tend to hang in the background. I mentioned posture above. Males tend to be upright while the girls are more likely to be bent over.

I agree, genetics is fun. So is trying to sex them. Enjoy the adventure.

 

[NatJ]

I can't really read the combs right now they are so small and I don't want to irritate them too much until I've made sure they all have had a drink and feed.

I see two single combs in the mix:
a yellow chick on the bottom right facing the camera
a red chick on the left, midway between top and bottom, also facing the camera

Those chicks have two single comb parents, so not a Dark Cornish mix.

At that age, I feel that single combs usually look thinner or skinnier than pea combs, as well as being taller and having more obvious points on top. Pea combs tend to be a bit wider (although not as wide as a rose comb would be), and don't stand up as much. They are more likely to look like the chick has "no comb" (vs. single combs that are usually more visible.) I have occasionally seen chicks with single combs that flop sideways at hatch, which makes them harder to recognize.

A couple of the yellow ones have darker areas in their down. The dark chipmunky looking ones look like the DC. The red chipmunky, I imagine could be RIR × DC, I think all the red ones all have lighter bellies, but not 100% sure as they are running around too much. View attachment 3762324

Do you know which ones came from which of your two flocks? Or are they all mixed up?

I think you might be right about the red chipmunky ones being RIR x DC, but for now I would say that is "likely" rather than certain.

 

[rbc-bow-chicka]

I see two single combs in the mix:
a yellow chick on the bottom right facing the camera
a red chick on the left, midway between top and bottom, also facing the camera

Those chicks have two single comb parents, so not a Dark Cornish mix.

At that age, I feel that single combs usually look thinner or skinnier than pea combs, as well as being taller and having more obvious points on top. Pea combs tend to be a bit wider (although not as wide as a rose comb would be), and don't stand up as much. They are more likely to look like the chick has "no comb" (vs. single combs that are usually more visible.) I have occasionally seen chicks with single combs that flop sideways at hatch, which makes them harder to recognize.


Do you know which ones came from which of your two flocks? Or are they all mixed up?

I think you might be right about the red chipmunky ones being RIR x DC, but for now I would say that is "likely" rather than certain.

I have zero idea which pens they came from. I should have kept better track, but this was kind of a whim.

Today I will grab them up again and see if I can start making a little sense of their combs.

Hopefully they all made it through the night. The first couple of days are fraught with worry for me. I make my husband nuts.

I started doing chicken movements yesterday evening, so everyone is getting tucked away with their own breed by close of business tonight. The chicks will go out in the brooder in the coop probably in another couple of days. And then I wait for the RIR to hatch and the crazy starts again.

 

[rbc-bow-chicka]

Not all white hens give sex linked chicks with a red rooster. It depends on the genetic make-up. White Leghorns practically never do. White Rock sometimes do. There are two ways to genetically make a solid white chicken, Dominant White paired with Black and Recessive White with anything as long as both genes at that gene pair are Recessive White. White Leghorns are typically Dominant White with a black base. Sine both are dominant genes one of each should be passed to the offspring so all chicks should be white with practically any rooster, at least in the first generation.

White Rocks is where it gets tricky with a lot of "if's". If they are Recessive White, which most are, you only have one copy of the Recessive White gene in the offspring with a rooster that does not have Recessive White. That recessive white gene will have no effect in that generation. If a White Rock hen has the Silver gene you can get red sex linked chicks from her as long as her base color is not black. Some breeders include Silver in a White hen to make her "whiter". It suppresses Black leakage. Sometimes Silver is included so you can make sex linked chicks.

You can ask the hatchery if you can make red sex linked chicks with their White Rocks. They might or might not know. The person on the phone or that answers an email may not even know what you are talking about. Conformation would be hatching eggs from a known rooster with a known hen.

That is a nicely colored group of chicks. The way I understand it you had White Rock and Dark Cornish hens and roosters in the same flock those eggs came from. And the RIR hen. You may have some sex links in there, you may not. When the parents are mixed like that you can never be sure.


It is really hard to sex chicks at hatch unless they are sex links. Occasionally I can make a realistic guess pretty early, males are more likely to have an upright posture and a certain body shape. The girls are harder to be sure. For the vast majority the signs of male versus female don't show up until they are four or five weeks old. I've had some I could not be sure until they were about 4 months old.

One sign can be the comb and wattles. A male is more likely to have a larger comb and show some wattles. They are also more likely to be a bright red. The girls are more likely to have a yellow or pale orange comb, if they show any, and tend to not show wattles until a later age. You'll notice I'm using a lot of weasel words like "likely" and "tend". None of this is always.

Another sign is that the males tend to be bolder. They will come out to greet you and check you out where the girls tend to hang in the background. I mentioned posture above. Males tend to be upright while the girls are more likely to be bent over.

I agree, genetics is fun. So is trying to sex them. Enjoy the adventure.

I am the master 'worst sex guesser' when it comes to sexing and I own it. Lol. It will be some time with me just standing and staring at them and watching how they behave before I form any opinions on it. And then, I will just presume I'm wrong. Lol.

I didn't even consider that someone *somewhere* in the hatchery might have an idea of what genes i have here. It is Murray McMurray. I can only ask, so I will try. I may be surprised.

I need to see if I can find a book on chicken genetics as it seems like I've fallen into a rabbit hole. Of chickens.

 

[rbc-bow-chicka]

I have had some f2 that started as yellow chicks and ended up looking closer to the dark Cornish grandad
View attachment 3762356

View attachment 3762358

Well, huh. That is quite interesting. There are 2 yellow ones that are not *quite* like the other yellows. One looks a little like it wants to have a chipmunkey design to it and the other is more of a goldenish yellow vs the lighter yellow of the others. I am only guessing they might be product of Cornish/White Rock. But that and 50 cents won't even get me a coffee unless it is in my own kitchen, so who knows. Lol.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I have had some f2 that started as yellow chicks and ended up looking closer to the dark Cornish grandad

I had something similar with my flock. Chicks that started out with red down feathered in as black. I can't find a genetic reason for this but I think it was some type of melanizer a breeder was using to decrease leakage in her black birds. It was hard to get rid of.

 

[NatJ]

I have had some f2 that started as yellow chicks and ended up looking closer to the dark Cornish grandad

I have read that Dark Cornish in Australia are based on Wheaten (gene at the e-locus), so they hatch out yellow but grow up to look the same as the Dark Cornish in other countries (the Dark Cornish I've seen in the USA have chipmunk-striped down, probably based on e+ at the e-locus).

 

[Lovethembuffs]

We have year old Dark Cornish and White Rock chickens. Got these specific breeds to start a breeding program to 'make' our own good 'meat birds'. Basically, 'Cornish x' of some kind.

*I know that commercial hatcheries have years science going into their breeds so ours will never approach the 'perfect' chicks that come from them.* We just want some heavy birds, good for meat.

My question deals with 'generations' of hatchlings. For example we have a Dark Cornish roo over White Rock hens and a White Rock roo over Dark Cornish hens. What is our next step with breeding? I am presuming we would proceed with the X chicks and couple with either a full white rock roo or hen?

If this question is better addressed elsewhere, please direct me.

Thank you

You may want to keep records on how big they are at each age. Any chicks will tend to grow faster at first, and slow down as they get older, so you might find that you do want to butcher them at a young age (fast growth, tender) rather than continuing to raise them to a bigger size (never as big as typical Cornish Cross, but bigger than if you had butchered the same birds at a younger age.)

You mention mothering: are you wanting to have broody hens hatch the chicks, instead of using an incubator? Dark Cornish are more likely to go broody than White Rocks, although of course there are no guarantees about which specific hens actually will go broody.


And of course all the chicks will be edible, even if they don't grow as big or as fast as you hope.


I assume you are planning for sexlinks? Red rooster x white hen gives red daughters and white sons, assuming the white mother has the "right" kind of white genes. You should know for sure after the first round of chicks hatch. If all chicks are white, including both males and females, then you have the "wrong" kind of white hens to make color-sexable chicks (sexlinks), but the daughters should still be good layers and the sons will be just as edible as ever.

(If the White Rocks have the right genes for white, you will also get color-sexable chicks when you cross them to a Dark Cornish rooster. Again, red daughters and white sons.)


It's a fun way to use that time

If you want color-sexable chicks in more colors, you can run a mixed flock of white hens and barred hens (like Barred Rocks) with the Rhode Island Red rooster, and chicks will hatch in four colors: red pullets and black pullets, white cockerels and cockerels that are black with yellow dots on their head (white barring will be visible on the black feathers as they grow.)

I did that one year, and it was fun to get 4 colors of chicks from the one pen, all sexable at hatch.


Years ago, I tried exactly the same idea-- but the hatchery sent me Dark Cornish BANTAMS instead of standards. They were cute little birds, but not the right choice for making meat chicks! They are impressively heavy for their (small) size, because they have such a round body shape and their feathers are close to their body instead of fluffing up to look big. They turned out to be nice broodies too.

I too am experimenting to raise my own meat birds....or at least something close. My thought is...what if I could not buy CC chicks from a hatchery...same with the grocery stores...if supply chains went down...So...I did some research and and crossing a White Rock rooster over Delaware and Jersey giant hens. These birds are separate from the rest of my flock. Attempting genetic is a bit challenging but it will be an interesting experiment. First chick just hatched about an hour ago. I'm attempting this on a small scale. I'll update as we progress.

 

[rbc-bow-chicka]

I too am experimenting to raise my own meat birds....or at least something close. My thought is...what if I could not buy CC chicks from a hatchery...same with the grocery stores...if supply chains went down...So...I did some research and and crossing a White Rock rooster over Delaware and Jersey giant hens. These birds are separate from the rest of my flock. Attempting genetic is a bit challenging but it will be an interesting experiment. First chick just hatched about an hour ago. I'm attempting this on a small scale. I'll update as we progress.

Please do!!!!! The summer has gotten away from me and I have not hatched the crosses I set up to do. So I will live vicariously through your efforts!!! Excited to see yours.