Can anyone recommend a feed for a hen with crop / digestive issues?

[Wyorp Rock]

Butchie update. Trying something new. So I had to go into town several days ago and my husband threw some leftovers to the chickens -- nothing too heavy, just some roasted beets and carrots. The other chickens were fine (just some purplish poo from the beets), but Butchie had a short crop episode. Her crop was big and full the next morning. It hadn't even gone sour yet. There was no smell -- it was just backed up. She was on day 3 of acidified copper sulfate for the bloating I was noticing in her abdomen, so maybe that helped the crop from not going sour.

I did the usual treatment that's worked on her before: no food for about 20 hours, just water and a tsp of oil, lots of massage. The crop cleared after one day. I gave her an Epsom flush, then after a couple hours fed her egg and sweet potato and the crop cleared fine by the next morning. She was tired and wanted to sleep most of the day yesterday, but today she is much better, and very hungry.

From this crop episode and the last one about five weeks ago, I'm really thinking there's nothing wrong with her crop. She has some cyst or inflammation making her abdomen swell and constricting her lower digestive system. Whatever is wrong with her, it's not her crop, that's just the final symptom.

When I noticed her abdomen beginning to swell and harden again, I also noticed that her vent had gone from a little circle to a coin slot shape. She sits for about an hour each day "nesting" and her butt pumps, just as if she were going to put an egg. So she's "in lay" even though she does not produce eggs. Lucio the rooster also noticed and stalks her. He caught her and mounted her the day her crop was full and poor Butchie almost suffocated. I keep her away from him now. But it seems like the combination of her oviduct trying to work is inflaming and putting more pressure on her other organs.

So I stopped the copper sulfate, waited three days for her system to clear, and started her on a course of Bactrim (sulfametoxazol) as @Two Crows suggested a few weeks ago. And I'm giving her a tea steeped with oregano, turmeric, and ginger to drink (she seems to like it) for the inflammation. Giving her the antibiotic seemed illogical to me given the sour crop that surfaced a few times, but given what I've observed recently, it seems worth a shot. She could very well have some chronic cystic condition with E coli or other bacteria that is worse when she's "in lay."

She's on day two of Bactrim -- I'm using an oral suspension for children, 50mg once per day. It's making her poop like crazy, very watery, but I'm keeping her as hydrated as possible. The hardness and bloating in her abdomen has already subsided a lot. She's acting normal again. Cleo keeps her company. So that's where we are today. View attachment 3499263
View attachment 3499830

Thank you for the update.
Of course I love to see Cleo included with Butchie in photos

Often the crop being slow is a symptom, so you would be correct in thinking that very likely something else is going on. Something reproductive is what I've found in my hens that had a history of slow/doughy/sour crop.
So, getting the inflammation under control may help alleviate the current symptoms you see until the next go round. These things tend to be chronic once started.

 

[TwoCrows]

Butchie update. Trying something new. So I had to go into town several days ago and my husband threw some leftovers to the chickens -- nothing too heavy, just some roasted beets and carrots. The other chickens were fine (just some purplish poo from the beets), but Butchie had a short crop episode. Her crop was big and full the next morning. It hadn't even gone sour yet. There was no smell -- it was just backed up. She was on day 3 of acidified copper sulfate for the bloating I was noticing in her abdomen, so maybe that helped the crop from not going sour.

I did the usual treatment that's worked on her before: no food for about 20 hours, just water and a tsp of oil, lots of massage. The crop cleared after one day. I gave her an Epsom flush, then after a couple hours fed her egg and sweet potato and the crop cleared fine by the next morning. She was tired and wanted to sleep most of the day yesterday, but today she is much better, and very hungry.

From this crop episode and the last one about five weeks ago, I'm really thinking there's nothing wrong with her crop. She has some cyst or inflammation making her abdomen swell and constricting her lower digestive system. Whatever is wrong with her, it's not her crop, that's just the final symptom.

When I noticed her abdomen beginning to swell and harden again, I also noticed that her vent had gone from a little circle to a coin slot shape. She sits for about an hour each day "nesting" and her butt pumps, just as if she were going to put an egg. So she's "in lay" even though she does not produce eggs. Lucio the rooster also noticed and stalks her. He caught her and mounted her the day her crop was full and poor Butchie almost suffocated. I keep her away from him now. But it seems like the combination of her oviduct trying to work is inflaming and putting more pressure on her other organs.

So I stopped the copper sulfate, waited three days for her system to clear, and started her on a course of Bactrim (sulfametoxazol) as @Two Crows suggested a few weeks ago. And I'm giving her a tea steeped with oregano, turmeric, and ginger to drink (she seems to like it) for the inflammation. Giving her the antibiotic seemed illogical to me given the sour crop that surfaced a few times, but given what I've observed recently, it seems worth a shot. She could very well have some chronic cystic condition with E coli or other bacteria that is worse when she's "in lay."

She's on day two of Bactrim -- I'm using an oral suspension for children, 50mg once per day. It's making her poop like crazy, very watery, but I'm keeping her as hydrated as possible. The hardness and bloating in her abdomen has already subsided a lot. She's acting normal again. Cleo keeps her company. So that's where we are today. View attachment 3499263
View attachment 3499830

Thanks for the update on Butchie! Many of these crop issues aren't crop issues at all, the crop problem is a symptom of something else going on. And anything swollen internally whether that be tumors or other organs, etc... that pushes on the intestines enough to slow the food exit down, will make yeast and bacteria grow throughout the entire tract. The problem is that it's hard to diagnose these internal things. Butchie is in wonderful hands with you.

 

[TropicalChickies]

Thanks for the update on Butchie! Many of these crop issues aren't crop issues at all, the crop problem is a symptom of something else going on. And anything swollen internally whether that be tumors or other organs, etc... that pushes on the intestines enough to slow the food exit down, will make yeast and bacteria grow throughout the entire tract. The problem is that it's hard to diagnose these internal things. Butchie is in wonderful hands with you.

Yes, my "diagnosis" is just speculation. All I can do is treat her symptoms, like you said. The Bactrim is definitely helping the swelling and inflammation in her abdomen right now so there must be bacteria along with the yeast.

But once again, this episode shows me that controlling her diet and portions is number one to keeping her comfortable and quality of life good. Whenever she can gorge on something (like leftovers or something she finds in the compost) she gets backed up.

I'm going to keep her on Bactrim for 5 days and then give her plenty of probiotic for the following weeks.

 

[TwoCrows]

Yes, my "diagnosis" is just speculation. All I can do is treat her symptoms, like you said. The Bactrim is definitely helping the swelling and inflammation in her abdomen right now so there must be bacteria along with the yeast.

But once again, this episode shows me that controlling her diet and portions is number one to keeping her comfortable and quality of life good. Whenever she can gorge on something (like leftovers or something she finds in the compost) she gets backed up.

I'm going to keep her on Bactrim for 5 days and then give her plenty of probiotic for the following weeks.

Keep us posted, you are doing a wonderful job caring for her!

 

[TropicalChickies]

Thank you for the update.
Of course I love to see Cleo included with Butchie in photos

Often the crop being slow is a symptom, so you would be correct in thinking that very likely something else is going on. Something reproductive is what I've found in my hens that had a history of slow/doughy/sour crop.
So, getting the inflammation under control may help alleviate the current symptoms you see until the next go round. These things tend to be chronic once started.

Thank you, yes I'm thinking a reproductive problem too because she has not laid an egg over a year. She's never laid a lash egg. But something is clearly wrong. I'll take care of her as long as she continues to bounce back and enjoy her days.

 

[TwoCrows]

Thank you, yes I'm thinking a reproductive problem too because she has not laid an egg over a year. She's never laid a lash egg. But something is clearly wrong. I'll take care of her as long as she continues to bounce back and enjoy her days.

The reproductive tract is a very likely suspect, it develops problems in 80% of all hens, so they say. Internal laying is very common and can happen at any time as well. A round of antibiotics can never hurt.

 

[TropicalChickies]

This is an interesting scholarly paper about IBV and reproductive problems that show up later.

"Infectious bronchitis virus (IBV) is an avian coronavirus that causes respiratory disease but can affect the reproductive tract of laying-type chickens. If infection occurs in pullets, false layer syndrome, which is characterized by the development of large, fluid-filled cystic oviducts, can occur."

Most sources say the reproductive problems surface at 1.5 - 2 years, which is when Butchie got sick. Her last eggs were either soft, pebbly, or malformed. Not a sure diagnosis, but this seems to describe exactly what happened to Butchie. She was certainly exposed to a serious respiratory infection as a chick -- of the original five eight month old pullets I bought 3 years ago, they all had respiratory distress to some degree. I didn't know anything about how these things are passed on or what they could mean for a hen later in life. Now I'm much more careful about the eggs I keep for hatching and not letting any sick birds into my flock.

Cleo is the only survivor of that original group. She had some symptoms when she arrived too, sneezing and raspy breathing. But she managed to throw it off and so far hasn't developed any other problem. She's about 4, just finished up another molt and looks like she's ready to start laying eggs again.

Lesson learned. I'll do whatever I can for Butchie as long as she responds and has good days hanging out with Cleo and the dogs.




https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9145318/

 

[TwoCrows]

This is an interesting scholarly paper about IBV and reproductive problems that show up later.

"Infectious bronchitis virus (IBV) is an avian coronavirus that causes respiratory disease but can affect the reproductive tract of laying-type chickens. If infection occurs in pullets, false layer syndrome, which is characterized by the development of large, fluid-filled cystic oviducts, can occur."

Most sources say the reproductive problems surface at 1.5 - 2 years, which is when Butchie got sick. Her last eggs were either soft, pebbly, or malformed. Not a sure diagnosis, but this seems to describe exactly what happened to Butchie. She was certainly exposed to a serious respiratory infection as a chick -- of the original five eight month old pullets I bought 3 years ago, they all had respiratory distress to some degree. I didn't know anything about how these things are passed on or what they could mean for a hen later in life. Now I'm much more careful about the eggs I keep for hatching and not letting any sick birds into my flock.

Cleo is the only survivor of that original group. She had some symptoms when she arrived too, sneezing and raspy breathing. But she managed to throw it off and so far hasn't developed any other problem. She's about 4, just finished up another molt and looks like she's ready to start laying eggs again.

Lesson learned. I'll do whatever I can for Butchie as long as she responds and has good days hanging out with Cleo and the dogs.




https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9145318/

Very interesting stuff here! It makes sense for sure. Thanks for sharing this info!! You are definitely on to something here. Butchie appreciates all you are doing for her, she still looks very bright eyed and happy to be alive, thanks to you.

 

[TropicalChickies]

Hi folks,

Just an update that Butchie is still with us, getting around, and enjoying little things in life each day. She officially turned three years old a few days ago.

She stays in our outdoor kitchen building with us most of the day, but goes outside to peck grass and dust bathe. She loves sprawling out in the sunshine with her wonky leg stretched out, it must feel good to her.

About two months ago, I was having problems getting feed that wasn't moldy or spoiled. I had to toss two sacks of it and was very frustrated. There's no "brands" or choices here, just one feed from one supplier. I'd been wanting to change over to a homemade formulation for some time so I did it. Now I feed the chickens a mix of wheat, corn, oats, quinoa, flaxseed, lightly fermented. I very carefully formulated it to have sufficient protein and minerals. And I supply sources of calcium for the laying hens. So far, everyone looks very robust, no signs of deficiencies, and there are several growing juveniles now too.

The big difference from the commercial feed I was buying is that I'm not adding soy. I'm using yellow split pea flour, mixed in with water right before I serve the mash, for protein. It's very nutrient dense and from what I've read, more easily absorbed.

I have a lot of problems with soy, the main one being that Ecuador doesn't produce any, so the soy is imported either from the US or Brazil, and I'm not too keen on how soy is farmed in either of those places. Especially Brazil where it's causing massive Amazon deforestation. I founded a rainforest regeneration project here in Ecuador so relying on Brazilian soy for my chickens doesn't really go with that.

My feelings aside, Butchie eats the mash every day, a carefully controlled portions. She absolutely could not tolerate the commercial feed. Even one day of eating it would back up her digestive system. So I'm thinking that perhaps the soy, or some other additive, was aggravating her condition.

She is not and I don't think will completely heal. There's an internal problem for sure. I need to keep her out of fruit, compost, and only let her nibble grass in small amounts. Occasionally, every 5 weeks or so, she has to have an "intermittent fasting day" if she's indulged in too much grass. She seems to know what to do when she doesn't feel great -- not eat for a day and drink a lot of water. I've only given her copper sulfate water once since my last post in May, as she was getting bloated and the yeasty smell was coming back.

I don't know how long she will live, but although she needs TLC, she seems to enjoy something every day.

On a much sadder note (and now I will start to cry), on June 4th, I lost my senior hen and best friend Cleo to a sudden and severe infection. When she went back to laying after her last molt in May, it didn't go well for her. She was sitting for long spells and the eggs she laid were absolutely enormous with delicate and pebbly shells. I gave her a calcium/phosphorus supplement, but something had happened internally. Perhaps also the death of Cheri, her last original flock mate, unsettled her, though she seemed very solid and confident even with the rooster and changes. After laying a few of these weak eggs, she weakened and couldn't walk, her legs swelled up and her skin turned yellow, had terrible diarrhea, etc. Even oxytetracycline injections did not help. After four days of declining, she suffered a heart attack and died. She is buried in the garden under this tree. I miss her terribly.

Beautiful Cleo. There will never be another one like her.

There is much new life however, four new additions hatched in late April and are doing well. And two hens are brooding eggs right now. My big handsome rooster Lucio is 11 months old. So there's joy in seeing all of this too.

Three of the youngsters. Segundo, Prima, and Tobias.

General Lucio and his best girl, Rusty

So much for peace and quiet.

Hope everyone who followed this thread is doing well and thank you again for all of your help and comments.

Kristen

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Thank you for the update and photos.

I'm so very sorry to hear about Cleo, that sweet girl!

It's good to hear Butchie is hanging in there, being spoiled even

The rest of the gang looks great and your rooster is very handsome, I'm glad things are going well.