Can Emus, Rheas, and Ostriches thrive on just grasses and water?

[KT9278]

(how would this affect their egg laying - I know it would go down but by how much?)

 

[JacinLarkwell]

(how would this affect their egg laying - I know it would go down but by how much?)

Thrive, very much doubt it. Survive, probably not. I don't think even that's what they solely eat in their natural environment

 

[shamorunner]

I know rhea can graze for their diet, keep in mind this is grazing and not just straight grass pellets or a damp and heavily chopped hay. When grazing they'll also grab a variety of plants, insects, reptiles, mice, and the like. Keep in mind that rhea and ostrich have larger digestive tracts geared towards breaking down fibrous material more effectively than the other rattites, which ostrich being the most effective. This allows them to graze for everything if given a proper area to graze. I know little on Emu sadly on this side other than the diet having less fiber. I'm sure there is a way to do something for emu but I am not familiar enough nor researched or talked with emu folks on dietary side of or much on emu

The best way to get an idea is to take a look at what they eat in the wild and seek to imitate it if you want a more natural approach to their diet. There is some slight information in books like The Welfare of Farmed Rattites, but the various books I've found talk about alfalfa and then other legumes like clover on occasion. If you don't have the space for then to graze properly, then aim for a feed composition that will work well. Lots of stuff here for emu then ostrich and a decent chunk of stuff on Rhea diets. Ostrich can leave off of a majority alfalfa based diet and do well after a conversation of a new Mexico breeder for the past 30yr+. Rhea can also go with a majority alfalfa based diet with my limited experience so far and mine only pick dog food over damp, chopped alfalfa and will eat large amounts of it

Impaction is major if you are giving them hay to simulate a grazing diet. Make sure it is heavily chopped or still pretty green so they can easily tear it apart. I'm looking into doing a minor fodder system, primarily for winters going forward

The egg laying side is an interesting one. Egg laying, fertility, and reaching maturity are all higher in captivity for rheas compared to wild rhea due to nutrient access and reduced predator burden. Rhea also have a lot more data on this side of things as there are regular efforts in South America for re introduction and comparing caprice birds, birds meant for release, and wild populations. Here is a paragraph on it from Welfare of Farmed Rattites p.44 from above:

It was reported that farmed greater rheas produced more eggs, also at a higheroverall fertility, than semi-captive or wild birds (Navarro and Martella 2002).Captive greater rhea females produced 40 eggs per female on average compared to24 eggs in semi-captive females. Hatching success in greater rheas is also improvedin captivity (60%) compared to 45% in semi-captivity and 30% in the wild (Navarroand Martella 2002). The latter trend was reversed in lesser rheas, with a 51% hatch-ing success in captivity compared to 60% in the wild. The improved performanceof greater rheas in captivity was related to a more stable nutrient supply and theexclusion of predators (Navarro and Martella 2002). In contrast, dietary inadequa-cies were blamed for the suboptimal hatching performance of lesser rheas. Theaverage egg production of 7 lesser rhea females was 32.6 eggs over a laying periodof 137 days, with a range from 14 to 44 eggs (Sarasqueta 2005). A coefficient ofvariation for egg production of ~33% suggests marked variation between females,as is also experienced in ostriches (Cloete et al. 2002, 2008a, b).

 

[shamorunner]

Thrive, very much doubt it. Survive, probably not. I don't think even that's what they solely eat in their natural environment

My biggest concern is either feeding hay and not chopping it heavily with moisture added to avoid impaction but simulate a pasture or to have them on a pasture without proper nutrition. I prefer to keep livestock off of K31 when it's an option, I'm going to run tests on the impact of growth rates for rheas in the next couple years but I'm expecting the toxicity to bring up issues when it is the bulk of the diet

The only grass and water sounds like they're wanting to keep them in a smaller area like a feed lot and give hay/grass-pellets or have them pasture raised. I like both as they can allow for allow for reduced feeding costs at the expense of time. The feed lot side is more likely to have exercise issues potentially for muscle mass

 

[KT9278]

My biggest concern is either feeding hay and not chopping it heavily with moisture added to avoid impaction but simulate a pasture or to have them on a pasture without proper nutrition. I prefer to keep livestock off of K31 when it's an option, I'm going to run tests on the impact of growth rates for rheas in the next couple years but I'm expecting the toxicity to bring up issues when it is the bulk of the diet

The only grass and water sounds like they're wanting to keep them in a smaller area like a feed lot and give hay/grass-pellets or have them pasture raised. I like both as they can allow for allow for reduced feeding costs at the expense of time. The feed lot side is more likely to have exercise issues potentially for muscle mass

Yenno how people do rotational grazing for cows, sheep, goats....I was basically wondering if such a thing was possible for ratites thats why I asked those questions about their diet.

 

[KT9278]

Yenno how people do rotational grazing for cows, sheep, goats....I was basically wondering if such a thing was possible for ratites thats why I asked those questions about their diet.

And if I were to do such a rotational grazing system with ostriches for example, then I would cross the largest male and female (cuz those 2 probably will have the best digestive system for digesting cellulose relative to the other individuals thats why they got so big) and keep doing that to get ostriches that have extremely good digestive systems.
Trying to make an animal that would be good for providing me with food in a survival situation.

 

[shamorunner]

Yenno how people do rotational grazing for cows, sheep, goats....I was basically wondering if such a thing was possible for ratites thats why I asked those questions about their diet.

You can do it, keep in mind that there is little information available outside of alfalfa and a few other plants for forage. You'll have to develop more on your own on this side of things for sustainability to allow them to maintain their long lifespan while still maintaining your production side of things

I would recomend looking into a method for either chopping hay and/or pelletizing. I would take a look at steering clear of K31 as the emdophyte is toxic in most animals to some degree. K31 hay is some of your readily available forage and hay but with the cost of rattites to start out and the learning process that goes with them, I would aim for other forages and types of hay despite some level of increased cost

And if I were to do such a rotational grazing system with ostriches for example, then I would cross the largest male and female (cuz those 2 probably will have the best digestive system for digesting cellulose relative to the other individuals thats why they got so big) and keep doing that to get ostriches that have extremely good digestive systems.
Trying to make an animal that would be good for providing me with food in a survival situation.

I would prioritize your fertility markers over size: egg production, egg size, hatching rate, rate of reaching maturity. These all take time to slowly figure out, especially if using something outside of breeding pairs/trios. I remember reading about the issues of too small eggs not being strong enough to make it or have slower growth rates as well as large eggs being to big and eggs have increased mortality rates

The reason I mention focusing on fertility markers is to be able to increase or add to your birds for breeding, meat, ect. Focusing on larger birds can increase their meat yield but may or may not be tied to other factors as well as their diet. The bigger ostriches may not necasarily be able to more effectively digest plant matter than one that is of a smaller frame, black Angus has genetic markers for feed efficiency and energy efficiency which play into how much weight the animal gains based on its diet. Again, this ties into a major lack of knowledge or at least publicly available knowledge on rattite genetic markers as well as limited data collection on forage and feed factors

 

[shamorunner]

It is incredibly fascinating stuff and I'm going to be be tracking such things starting with my first breeding season this year, just more backend work that needs to be done

 

[KT9278]

You can do it, keep in mind that there is little information available outside of alfalfa and a few other plants for forage. You'll have to develop more on your own on this side of things for sustainability to allow them to maintain their long lifespan while still maintaining your production side of things

I would recomend looking into a method for either chopping hay and/or pelletizing. I would take a look at steering clear of K31 as the emdophyte is toxic in most animals to some degree. K31 hay is some of your readily available forage and hay but with the cost of rattites to start out and the learning process that goes with them, I would aim for other forages and types of hay despite some level of increased cost


I would prioritize your fertility markers over size: egg production, egg size, hatching rate, rate of reaching maturity. These all take time to slowly figure out, especially if using something outside of breeding pairs/trios. I remember reading about the issues of too small eggs not being strong enough to make it or have slower growth rates as well as large eggs being to big and eggs have increased mortality rates

The reason I mention focusing on fertility markers is to be able to increase or add to your birds for breeding, meat, ect. Focusing on larger birds can increase their meat yield but may or may not be tied to other factors as well as their diet. The bigger ostriches may not necasarily be able to more effectively digest plant matter than one that is of a smaller frame, black Angus has genetic markers for feed efficiency and energy efficiency which play into how much weight the animal gains based on its diet. Again, this ties into a major lack of knowledge or at least publicly available knowledge on rattite genetic markers as well as limited data collection on forage and feed factors

- The main thing I would want from them is eggs not so much meat, cuz for meat you have to kill the animal and there would be a large amount of meat which you wouldn't be able to consume in a short amount of time (cuz it would rot if not stored), but eggs would be a steady consistent source of food.
- I'm not saying I wouldn't eat the meat, I definitely would: (females that no longer lay eggs, males and females that look shit from the outside (probably indicative of underlying bad genetics - 3 legs for example, or bald spots...)

1) If for ex: I hatch 100 ostrich eggs and let them grow out on pasture (rotationally graze them), how exactly would I be able to determine which ones have the best genetics for extracting lots of calories and nutrients from cellulose type material (cuz you said size wouldn't necessarily mean a better digestive system? I'm guessing ADG - average daily gain also would be a useless measure?)

2) things I would want to selectively breed ostriches, rheas and/or emus for:
- high egg production
- strong immune systems (high resistance to internal and external parasites - don't want an animal that lays 300 eggs (good production) but has too weak of an immune system and needs medications every week)
- extremely good digestive system for digesting cellulose type material (this I think might be the most important and would be a major limiting factor. An ostrich with the potential to lay 300 eggs a year is useless to me if it is a picky eater, or needs grains and shit.)


How exactly would one go about creating such an animal: as in which male and female to breed?
- For the high egg production example: you cross the highest egg laying female with....which male? the fastest growing male whose mother was a shit egg layer? or the male who maybe didnt grow as fast but his mother was a good egg layer?

btw what birds do u keep and what exactly are u selectively breeding for?

 

[KT9278]

Also u said I have to chop their food up for them...is that absolutely necessary? cuz that feels like too much work.
Like can't they just pluck off the grass or whatever and eat it themselves normally like a cow does instead of me having to spoonfeed them?
Shouldnt they be fine cuz in the wild nobody gives them chopped food they just eat it themselves