Can I tell males VS females with any of these crosses?

[MGG]

I have a barred Olive Egger rooster who was a crele penedesenca X Ameraucana cross.
I'd really like to breed him with some of my blue egg laying EEs to create Easter eggers. But I have a friend who wants some that can't have boys. Can I get sex-linked chicks or any with gender specific down with him over any of these hens?

Rooster

Some kind of EE that lays bright blue eggs (the ugly bald black one)

Another black EE

Two other EEs. These are the only photos I can find of them so far, I'll keep looking

Partridge (?) EE

@Amer @The Moonshiner @Rhodebar Lover @NatJ
Thanks!

 

[NatJ]

I have a barred Olive Egger rooster who was a crele penedesenca X Ameraucana cross.
I'd really like to breed him with some of my blue egg laying EEs to create Easter eggers. But I have a friend who wants some that can't have boys. Can I get sex-linked chicks or any with gender specific down with him over any of these hens?

Rooster View attachment 4080252

Some kind of EE that lays bright blue eggs (the ugly bald black one)
View attachment 4080253

Another black EEView attachment 4080256View attachment 4080257View attachment 4080258

Two other EEs. These are the only photos I can find of them so far, I'll keep looking View attachment 4080259

Partridge (?) EE
View attachment 4080261View attachment 4080260View attachment 4080263


@Amer @The Moonshiner @Rhodebar Lover @NatJ
Thanks!

That's a hard one. I think your only possible chance would be with the hen you mark as "Partridge (?)"

It looks like she's silver and he's probably gold/silver split. That's not quite right for gold/silver sexlinks, but any gold chicks would be females. It's just the silver ones that could go either way. I'm afraid the chicks may have so much black that you can't see gold vs. silver in their down, but you won't know for sure unless you try it.

If you cross them, I would expect:
gold daughters
silver daughters
silver sons

So from that mix, if you can pick out any that are gold, they would be female. The silvers would be about 3/4 of the total chicks, and would include both males and females, and you won't know which is which until they grow enough to sex by other methods.

But I have a friend who wants some that can't have boys. Can I get sex-linked chicks or any with gender specific down with him over any of these hens?

Depending on how young your friend wants them to be, you might be able to just raise the chicks until you can tell.

Or have each egg hatch in a separate mesh bag or basket, mark each chick and the matching eggshell, then send the shells off for DNA sexing. As long as you can properly match the results to the chicks, you will know what the chicks are. (This isn't particularly cheap, but would be faster than waiting for them to grow enough that you could be certain of sexes.)

 

[MGG]

That's a hard one. I think your only possible chance would be with the hen you mark as "Partridge (?)"

It looks like she's silver and he's probably gold/silver split. That's not quite right for gold/silver sexlinks, but any gold chicks would be females. It's just the silver ones that could go either way. I'm afraid the chicks may have so much black that you can't see gold vs. silver in their down, but you won't know for sure unless you try it.

If you cross them, I would expect:
gold daughters
silver daughters
silver sons

So from that mix, if you can pick out any that are gold, they would be female. The silvers would be about 3/4 of the total chicks, and would include both males and females, and you won't know which is which until they grow enough to sex by other methods.


Depending on how young your friend wants them to be, you might be able to just raise the chicks until you can tell.

Or have each egg hatch in a separate mesh bag or basket, mark each chick and the matching eggshell, then send the shells off for DNA sexing. As long as you can properly match the results to the chicks, you will know what the chicks are. (This isn't particularly cheap, but would be faster than waiting for them to grow enough that you could be certain of sexes.)

Hey, thanks so much for your reply! This is very helpful. I actually found someone to take any boys, so I'm just going to hatch some from all of them. I'm excited to see how they turn out!

Any ideas what I could expect some of the chicks from them to look like? Would any crosses be particularly cool looking or fun? Just plain dark or barred colored chickens aren't super exciting to me, unless they're unique somehow.
I'm leaving in a few of my other hens too, a splash Silkie, a dark blue Silkie cross (parents are the splash Silkie and the above Olive Egger rooster), a buff brahma hen, a splash blue laced red Wyandotte, a splash Orpington cross hen (parents were a splash English Orpington and the splash blue laced red Wyandotte hen) and the Easter eggers from the first post. Thanks!

 

[MGG]

The Silkie cross

New photos of the rooster

Splash Laced Red Wyandotte hen

 

[NatJ]

Any ideas what I could expect some of the chicks from them to look like?

I'm fairly sure the rooster is leaky black with one barring gene, and has both the gold and the silver genes. Since he is a cross of Crele Penedesenca x Ameraucana, he is also carrying the genes that give the duckwing pattern (what Crele would be if it didn't also have barring.)

Given that, without paying attention to individual hens, I would expect about half of his chicks to be black and about half of those to have white barring. Depending on the hen colors, that could leave up to half of chicks showing some pattern of gold & black or silver & black, with half of them also showing white barring over their other colors.

The barring can appear on sons or daughters, so its not useful for sexing chicks by color.

He's probably got one gene for muff/beard on the face, so he will give that to half of his chicks. From clean-faced hens, about half the chicks should also be free of muff/beard. From hens with muff/beard, either 3/4 of chicks or all chicks will have muff/beard.

From specific hens:

Some kind of EE that lays bright blue eggs (the ugly bald black one)

Another black EE

From each black EE hen:
Either 3/4 or all chicks black, depending on the genes the hen has. Half of the chicks should have white barring over their other coloring, the other half not. The "black" chicks are likely to show some leakage of other colors as they grow up. If only 3/4 of chicks are black, the others will probably have some pattern of gold & black or silver & black.

Two other EEs. These are the only photos I can find of them so far, I'll keep looking

Dark one in front, I can't decide about her coloring. If she's black with leakage, same predictions as the other black EEs. But I think she's got some pattern of black and gold, just heavy on the black. If that is the case, about half of chicks will probably be black anyway (from the father), but the other half will show some pattern of gold & black or silver & black. Half of chicks should show white barring, which means about half of each color/pattern chicks and half of each sex of chicks.

The lighter brown one in back will probably produce black chicks (again, the father giving it to half of them), and the other half should have patterns of gold & black or silver & black. Their coloring will probably include a lot of the gold or silver and not much black, as compared with chicks from hens that show more black in their own coloring. Again, half of all chicks should have white barring.

Partridge (?) EE

Similar to the previous few EE hens: about half of chicks half, the other half gold & black or silver & black, with about half of each color showing white barring too. From this hen specifically, all sons will be silver, so any gold chicks must be daughters. But that only works if you know which chicks came from eggs she laid instead of from any other hen. From any hen with gold, using that rooster, you should get approximately equal numbers of gold and silver in both sexes, so no color-based sexing is possible for them.

I'm leaving in a few of my other hens too, a splash Silkie, a dark blue Silkie cross (parents are the splash Silkie and the above Olive Egger rooster), a buff brahma hen, a splash blue laced red Wyandotte, a splash Orpington cross hen (parents were a splash English Orpington and the splash blue laced red Wyandotte hen) and the Easter eggers from the first post. Thanks!

With the Splash Silkie:
About half of chicks colored like the blue Silkie-cross you already have, and the other half with white barring added to that color. Some chicks may show leakage of other colors as they grow.

With the blue Silkie cross:
At least 3/4 of chicks "black" and maybe all of them. Half of those "black" chicks actually blue. If there are any that are not "black," they will be about 1/4 of the total, and will show some pattern of gold & black or silver & black. Half of all chicks will have white barring over their other colors/patterns.

With the Buff Brahma hen, same color options as the light brown Easter Egger above.

With the Splash Laced Red Wyandotte, half of chicks "black," other half showing some amount of pattern in gold & black or silver & black. The pattern may look something like lacing or it may not. All "black" actually blue, whether it's covering the whole bird or whether it's in a pattern like lacing. Half of all chicks showing white barring.

With the Splash Orpington-Wyandotte mix: 3/4 of chicks "black," other quarter showing some amount of pattern in gold & black or silver & black. Compared with chicks from the pure Wyandotte, these chicks are much less likely to show a specific pattern such as lacing, and more likely to just have the colors arranged in a less-tidy way. All "black" actually blue, and half of all chicks showing white barring.

Would any crosses be particularly cool looking or fun? Just plain dark or barred colored chickens aren't super exciting to me, unless they're unique somehow.

Many chicks will show muff/beard on their face. I don't know if that looks cool to you.

From the Silkie-cross hen, half of chicks should have a crest on their head, and most chicks will have some amount of feathers on their feet. If she has an extra toe on each foot, about half of her chicks will too.

For colors, I'd focus on hatching eggs from the hens that are not black all over. Blue hens will give blue to half of their chicks, splash hens will give blue to all their chicks, and hens with other colors will produce about 50% chicks that show colors/patterns when you mate them with that rooster.

So the solid black hens are your worst choices for chicks that have interesting coloring.

If the rooster has one blue egg gene, he will give that to half of his chicks.
With hens that lay brown or white eggs, about half of chicks will lay green or blue eggs (probably all greens not blues, given the rooster's ancestry.)
With hens that lay blue eggs, they will also be giving the blue egg gene to their chicks. So you will get either 3/4 of chicks or all of chicks having a blue egg gene from those hens (depending on whether the hen has one vs. two blue egg genes.)

 

[MGG]

I'm fairly sure the rooster is leaky black with one barring gene, and has both the gold and the silver genes. Since he is a cross of Crele Penedesenca x Ameraucana, he is also carrying the genes that give the duckwing pattern (what Crele would be if it didn't also have barring.)

Given that, without paying attention to individual hens, I would expect about half of his chicks to be black and about half of those to have white barring. Depending on the hen colors, that could leave up to half of chicks showing some pattern of gold & black or silver & black, with half of them also showing white barring over their other colors.

The barring can appear on sons or daughters, so its not useful for sexing chicks by color.

He's probably got one gene for muff/beard on the face, so he will give that to half of his chicks. From clean-faced hens, about half the chicks should also be free of muff/beard. From hens with muff/beard, either 3/4 of chicks or all chicks will have muff/beard.

From specific hens:


From each black EE hen:
Either 3/4 or all chicks black, depending on the genes the hen has. Half of the chicks should have white barring over their other coloring, the other half not. The "black" chicks are likely to show some leakage of other colors as they grow up. If only 3/4 of chicks are black, the others will probably have some pattern of gold & black or silver & black.


Dark one in front, I can't decide about her coloring. If she's black with leakage, same predictions as the other black EEs. But I think she's got some pattern of black and gold, just heavy on the black. If that is the case, about half of chicks will probably be black anyway (from the father), but the other half will show some pattern of gold & black or silver & black. Half of chicks should show white barring, which means about half of each color/pattern chicks and half of each sex of chicks.

The lighter brown one in back will probably produce black chicks (again, the father giving it to half of them), and the other half should have patterns of gold & black or silver & black. Their coloring will probably include a lot of the gold or silver and not much black, as compared with chicks from hens that show more black in their own coloring. Again, half of all chicks should have white barring.


Similar to the previous few EE hens: about half of chicks half, the other half gold & black or silver & black, with about half of each color showing white barring too. From this hen specifically, all sons will be silver, so any gold chicks must be daughters. But that only works if you know which chicks came from eggs she laid instead of from any other hen. From any hen with gold, using that rooster, you should get approximately equal numbers of gold and silver in both sexes, so no color-based sexing is possible for them.


With the Splash Silkie:
About half of chicks colored like the blue Silkie-cross you already have, and the other half with white barring added to that color. Some chicks may show leakage of other colors as they grow.

With the blue Silkie cross:
At least 3/4 of chicks "black" and maybe all of them. Half of those "black" chicks actually blue. If there are any that are not "black," they will be about 1/4 of the total, and will show some pattern of gold & black or silver & black. Half of all chicks will have white barring over their other colors/patterns.

With the Buff Brahma hen, same color options as the light brown Easter Egger above.

With the Splash Laced Red Wyandotte, half of chicks "black," other half showing some amount of pattern in gold & black or silver & black. The pattern may look something like lacing or it may not. All "black" actually blue, whether it's covering the whole bird or whether it's in a pattern like lacing. Half of all chicks showing white barring.

With the Splash Orpington-Wyandotte mix: 3/4 of chicks "black," other quarter showing some amount of pattern in gold & black or silver & black. Compared with chicks from the pure Wyandotte, these chicks are much less likely to show a specific pattern such as lacing, and more likely to just have the colors arranged in a less-tidy way. All "black" actually blue, and half of all chicks showing white barring.


Many chicks will show muff/beard on their face. I don't know if that looks cool to you.

From the Silkie-cross hen, half of chicks should have a crest on their head, and most chicks will have some amount of feathers on their feet. If she has an extra toe on each foot, about half of her chicks will too.

For colors, I'd focus on hatching eggs from the hens that are not black all over. Blue hens will give blue to half of their chicks, splash hens will give blue to all their chicks, and hens with other colors will produce about 50% chicks that show colors/patterns when you mate them with that rooster.

So the solid black hens are your worst choices for chicks that have interesting coloring.

If the rooster has one blue egg gene, he will give that to half of his chicks.
With hens that lay brown or white eggs, about half of chicks will lay green or blue eggs (probably all greens not blues, given the rooster's ancestry.)
With hens that lay blue eggs, they will also be giving the blue egg gene to their chicks. So you will get either 3/4 of chicks or all of chicks having a blue egg gene from those hens (depending on whether the hen has one vs. two blue egg genes.)

Wow, thank you so much! This helps a lot.
I took another photo of the dark hen last night, still not great though. She's kind of hard to photograph. She also gets her beard plucked a lot, but she did have a big one at one point.

I'll avoid most of the black ones probably then. The rooster should have been an olive egger if he were a girl, lol. So would he make darker blue (teal?) egg layers crossed with any blue egg laying hens? The only colors I usually get over there are light blue, a sort of pale minty green, small shiny very light cream colored eggs from the Silkie, and some light tan. (Brahma and Orpington mix)

 

[NatJ]

Wow, thank you so much! This helps a lot.
I took another photo of the dark hen last night, still not great though. She's kind of hard to photograph. She also gets her beard plucked a lot, but she did have a big one at one point. View attachment 4082523

She's one of those hard ones. Could be leaky black, could be a dark version of something else.

I think it is more likely that she is not actually black (genetically speaking), so she would produce a higher percentage of not-black chicks than you get from the black hens.

I'll avoid most of the black ones probably then. The rooster should have been an olive egger if he were a girl, lol. So would he make darker blue (teal?) egg layers crossed with any blue egg laying hens? The only colors I usually get over there are light blue, a sort of pale minty green, small shiny very light cream colored eggs from the Silkie, and some light tan. (Brahma and Orpington mix)

Yes, his chicks should inherit more of the genes that make eggs darker. So I would expect mostly medium greens and medium browns from his daughters, instead of the lighter shades the current hens lay. There will probably be some variation in how dark the eggs are, so you may get some pullets that lay light eggs and others that lay dark eggs, along with the ones that are in between.

 

[MGG]

She's one of those hard ones. Could be leaky black, could be a dark version of something else.

I think it is more likely that she is not actually black (genetically speaking), so she would produce a higher percentage of not-black chicks than you get from the black hens.


Yes, his chicks should inherit more of the genes that make eggs darker. So I would expect mostly medium greens and medium browns from his daughters, instead of the lighter shades the current hens lay. There will probably be some variation in how dark the eggs are, so you may get some pullets that lay light eggs and others that lay dark eggs, along with the ones that are in between.

Snapped two good ones quick. She's interesting looking.

I collected two eggs so far, one from the tan EE and one from the grey ish partridge-y one. Or whatever you call that color.
I just put the rooster in yesterday though so not sure if they're fertile yet.

Sounds fun, thanks! I'm sure she'll like them.

Another thing I remembered, the partridge-y Grey EE is I'm 90% positive the daughter of the ugly bald black EE and the rooster. Any thoughts on how that would have happened?

 

[NatJ]

Snapped two good ones quick. She's interesting looking.

Ooh, nice!

In those photos, definitely not black. So she goes with the predictions for the other not-black hens: half of chicks black (genes from father), other half of chicks showing gold & black or silver & black. Half of each group with white barring.

Another thing I remembered, the partridge-y Grey EE is I'm 90% positive the daughter of the ugly bald black EE and the rooster. Any thoughts on how that would have happened?

Then she would be one of those "silver & black" chicks that I have predicted some of the hens can produce. That would mean the rooster and the hen each have one gene for black and one gene that allows other colors/patterns. So 3/4 of chicks get at least one black gene (one parent or the other), and since it is dominant, that is what they show. The other quarter of chicks get a not-black gene from each parent and show some other set of colors/patterns.

If you want to compare my explanation with other discussions of genetics, here is a rephrasing that includes more of the correct terms:
I've been saying "black gene" to mean the Extended Black gene, abbreviation E, which is found at the e-locus (specific place on the chromosome.) There are a bunch of other alleles (alternate forms of the gene) that can exist at the e-locus. Each of them has a name, and each has a different effect on how black and gold colors are distributed on the body of the chicken, but Extended Black is dominant over all the others and makes the chicken's feathers be mostly or entirely black. Other genes (not at the e-locus) can change the black to blue or splash, or change the gold to silver, or re-arrange the colors a bit more, or add white barring, or cause various other effects. But those e-locus genes are the main ones that determine whether you have a black chicken (possibly with leakage of other colors) or whether you get chickens colored like the light brown hen, the partridge-y grey EE hen, the dark one that you just posted more photos of, the Buff Brahma, the Splash Laced Red Wyandotte, and so forth. If the main point was to figure out which hens could produce any colors other than black, I figured it was easier to just treat chickens as black (have the Extended Black gene) or anything else (have no Extended Black gene).

 

[RoostersAreAwesome]

I have a barred Olive Egger rooster who was a crele penedesenca X Ameraucana cross.
I'd really like to breed him with some of my blue egg laying EEs to create Easter eggers. But I have a friend who wants some that can't have boys. Can I get sex-linked chicks or any with gender specific down with him over any of these hens?

Rooster View attachment 4080252

Some kind of EE that lays bright blue eggs (the ugly bald black one)
View attachment 4080253

Another black EEView attachment 4080256View attachment 4080257View attachment 4080258

Two other EEs. These are the only photos I can find of them so far, I'll keep looking View attachment 4080259

Partridge (?) EE
View attachment 4080261View attachment 4080260View attachment 4080263


@Amer @The Moonshiner @Rhodebar Lover @NatJ
Thanks!

The last hen is barred silver duckwing, aka silver crele