Confirmed Marek’s. Moving forward.

[2ndTink]

@Kat_chickengirl here is a thread you may be interested in, not the same situation as you are asking about but some good info.

 

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Thanks!
I would also go the good old fashion way for immune support. Make some fermented feed, and when serving throw in finely chopped fresh fruit and vegetables (you can even buy pre-chopped frozen bags and toss in the frozen pieces for the chickens to cool off).

Whole foods are a fantastic choice IMO, here's why, from a scientific and nutritional perspective:

1. Bioavailability​

• Nutrients in whole foods are typically more bioavailable, meaning the body can absorb and use them more efficiently.
• Many vitamins in synthetic form (like some B vitamins or vitamin E as dl-alpha-tocopherol) are not absorbed as well as their natural counterparts.

2. Synergistic Compounds​

• Whole foods contain complex combinations of vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, enzymes, and phytonutrients that work synergistically—enhancing each other’s function.
• For instance, leafy greens like kale provide not just calcium, but also vitamin K, magnesium, and phytonutrients that help the body absorb and utilize minerals efficiently.

3. Risk of Imbalance or Overdose with Multivitamins​

• Multivitamins can easily exceed safe upper limits, especially for fat-soluble vitamins (A, D, E, K), iron, or selenium.
• In animals like parrots and chickens, synthetic vitamins can accumulate or cause imbalances, especially if you're already feeding a fortified diet or commercial feed.
• Especially with fat-soluble ones like vitamins A and D3, which can accumulate and cause liver damage, tissue calcification, or kidney failure.

4. Whole Foods Support Gut Health​

• Natural foods also support the gut microbiome with prebiotic fibers and non-vitamin nutrients that commcerial mixes don’t provide.
• In birds, for instance, foods like fresh greens, sprouted grains, and vegetables help maintain crop health and digestion in ways a vitamin powder can’t replicate.

Cleaning:
F10 comes in two forms- the green bottle (with suds that needs to be rinsed) and the yellow bottle- which doesn't need to be rinsed! Just spray and walk away. Definitely get the concentrate

View attachment 4121042

Hang in there!

@CabritaChicks Your input has been fantastic and I’m so appreciative of your suggestions, especially coming from an avian veterinary perspective. Truly so valuable and I know it will be helpful for others who find this thread in the future.

Thank you as well for the link to the veterinary decontaminant. It arrived yesterday and I will be stripping the big coop (it’s basically a small barn) and getting to work on cleaning best I can. I’ll use the Vircon-S to clean out the grower trailer once I move the littles to the big coop, since it will have plenty of time to air out before the new chicks go in there. I had been using it predominantly to spray down boots before and after leaving the grower coop. I’d rather keep the bird safe stuff to use as needed for the future.

My adults have always gotten fresh veg and fruit added to their diets but I honestly had pulled back a bit when Esther got sick, wanting them to eat their pellets so I knew they were getting their appropriate nutrient profile. I love the idea of frozen pre-chopped veg, they are going to be stoked! . And I’ve never fermented feed so off to research that now!

Thank you again! Wish you were local to us. It’s so hard to find avian professionals, especially with a mobile practice. Your clients are so lucky!

 

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My recommendation is to keep them on the 2x dose indefinitely. The 1x dose is the minimum dose that they have seen to be effective in studies. In our real world, we don't know that each chicken has eaten exactly that, so if you do 2x hopefully each chicken is getting at least the 1x dose at that point. If you are direct dosing each chicken would be different, but if you mix it in their dry feed or add it to treats, 2x will make sure they are getting what they need.

From the current information, it takes 3 weeks on the CS/B to stop the virus from shedding, but only 3 days being off of CS/B for it to no longer provide protection. So daily dosing is really critical long term. It also has shown effectiveness against HPAI, so some people during the migration seasons bump the dosage to 3x or 4x.

I haven't looked in to that, thanks for the link that is really interesting!

From what I've read these are different strains, so if your strain is the visceral form, you won't see the typical symptoms for the other strains. I'm sure it isn't impossible to have more than one strain in the flock, but 1 is more than enough!

Yes, you will recognize issues starting sooner now and there have been people having success helping birds recover from an active Mareks infection.

Preventative measures, a healthy diet and lifestyle, love and care, that's a lot more than the majority of chickens in the US get (think commercial barns!). You are doing all you can for your flock and that means a lot to them!

@2ndTink seriously, thank you again for your help. You’ve been so helpful, both when George first became ill and now, guiding me through this stuff. I know I’ll have more questions moving forward and appreciate the time you take out of your life to help me and all the others I’ve seen you help here on BYC. Sending solid thank you vibes through the interwebs!

 

[CabritaChicks]

@CabritaChicks Your input has been fantastic and I’m so appreciative of your suggestions, especially coming from an avian veterinary perspective. Truly so valuable and I know it will be helpful for others who find this thread in the future.

Thank you as well for the link to the veterinary decontaminant. It arrived yesterday and I will be stripping the big coop (it’s basically a small barn) and getting to work on cleaning best I can. I’ll use the Vircon-S to clean out the grower trailer once I move the littles to the big coop, since it will have plenty of time to air out before the new chicks go in there. I had been using it predominantly to spray down boots before and after leaving the grower coop. I’d rather keep the bird safe stuff to use as needed for the future.

My adults have always gotten fresh veg and fruit added to their diets but I honestly had pulled back a bit when Esther got sick, wanting them to eat their pellets so I knew they were getting their appropriate nutrient profile. I love the idea of frozen pre-chopped veg, they are going to be stoked! . And I’ve never fermented feed so off to research that now!

Thank you again! Wish you were local to us. It’s so hard to find avian professionals, especially with a mobile practice. Your clients are so lucky!

You are too kind.
Glad you found my responses useful.

My clients are mostly international (spain, italy, UK, france, mexico, stateside, australia). But the free clinic allows me to help birds on island, quite the interesting experiences!

 

[Debbie292d]

Omgosh! You guys really came through to provide some amazing insight and help me take a breath and work on our path forward. I was pretty distraught after reading the report yesterday and was hesitant to even post. But now I’m glad I did.

Thank you @CabritaChicks, @2ndTink, and @townchicks (also, thanks for clarifying regarding the hybrid vigor of hatchery chicks!) appreciate all of your suggestions and you’ve given me a lot to think about.

I clean the poop board and the walk-in coop daily, the run I clean every day or every other day. I’m fastidious about cleaning since the current coop is right next to my barn and I try to mitigate as best I can for fly control. It also allows me to know instantly if there is a change in their droppings.

Regarding nutritional/health support, the pullets are still on medicated crumble 20% and I was going to be transitioning them soon over to the Nutrena All Flock 20% that I feed my adult birds. The adult birds just had a round of poultry cell in their water as a follow up to deworming them with Moxivet (after seeing report of tapeworm in the initial necropsy report I received before the final one yesterday). The littles had rooster booster vitamin and electrolytes in a secondary waterer in their set up since we had an unusually warm day for us yesterday. I supplement with vitamin support as needed, but it sounds like I should make it a regular treatment, once or twice a week to give their immune system a boost.

I started everyone today on preventative double dose of the biacalin as suggested, will continue that for the next 3 weeks and then see where if I should continue at the level or drop down to regular preventative.

Wondering if anyone has used sodium butyrate successfully with their Marek’s flock? I saw it was listed on Poultry DVM and then read some studies, including the attached white paper. It seems promising but I didn’t get any hits when I searched the forum for it. If so, what form and dose did you use and did you see any good outcomes? It looks like I can buy 600mg tabs at Walmart. The papers I read sounded like it should be a given to add to boost immune health and attempt to stave off the lymphoma, but I’m not sure of long term impacts or deficiencies that it may/may not impart on the GI system.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10932986/


I have Vircon-S that I have used to decon as needed in areas that aren’t currently in use but I’ll be ordering the F10S or Oxine since I can douse the coop and run since it’s safer to use and have the chickens enter the space immediately after treatment. Thank you for the recommendation.

Since the visceral form is what presented in my two girls, I’m assuming that is what we will be dealing with here, or can it also manifest in one of the different forms in this flock (assuming there is no other exposure to any other strains, of course)? I feel like these questions may now be in the wrong forum—apologies.

Perspective is everything and always so much clearer in the bright light of day. You all are right. There are a million things out there gunning for our chickens. At least in this case, I am now aware it’s here and can be mindful of any presentations and assume first it’s most likely the Marek’s. Horses before zebras and all.

We will just carry on then, put in some mitigating measures the best we can and hope for the best. If I can’t change the order for the newer girls, then I’ll pump them full of supplements and give them a good life while they are here.

Thanks again and a quick pic of my lap warmer, Mrs Gladys Kravitz. She’s one of my new girls growing out in my temporary horse trailer coop.

I got my CS/B advice from @2ndTink and the Marek's site she pointed out to me on FB. These silkies have been on the double preventative dose for at least six months now. I use Kaytee Exact +FAT for the fat that's supposed to be added. I have no clue how much, so I just put twice the amount of CS. We don't have Mareks or AI here (knock on wood), but soak any hatching eggs I buy in Odoban for a minute. I spray the box of eggs before I even open it, then spray the inside too.

They also get 1/2 dose of Rooster Booster Granules mixed in the feed. That I've always done. I ferment grains too so didn't want to OD them lol.

 

[Iluveggers]

I’m so sorry to hear about your flock troubles. Although I don’t have any experience with Marek’s, I do read a lot of hatchery breed info, and thought you might be interested in a “breed” from Ideal Poultry called Ideal 236.

From their website:
The Ideal 236 is a highly productive white egg layer that was originally developed at Ideal Poultry Breeding Farms Inc. in the 1960's from White Leghorns, Brown Leghorns, Anconas and California Grays for resistance to Marek's disease. Ideal 236 chicks have single combs and are pale yellow, with some having a small number of black spots. They have clean, yellow legs and feet. Adults have white plumage with a few black spots and a body that is similar but slightly larger than a typical White Leghorn.

Not sure if you’d be interested in the future, but they are supposed to be bred for resistance. Good luck!

 

[CabritaChicks]

“breed” from Ideal Poultry called Ideal 236.

From their website:
The Ideal 236 is a highly productive white egg layer that was originally developed at Ideal Poultry Breeding Farms Inc. in the 1960's from White Leghorns, Brown Leghorns, Anconas and California Grays for resistance to Marek's disease. Ideal 236 chicks have single combs and are pale yellow, with some having a small number of black spots. They have clean, yellow legs and feet. Adults have white plumage with a few black spots and a body that is similar but slightly larger than a typical White Leghorn.

You've just sent me down a whole new research path—love it! I'm learning something new every day! Intrigued.

 

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I got my CS/B advice from @2ndTink and the Marek's site she pointed out to me on FB. These silkies have been on the double preventative dose for at least six months now. I use Kaytee Exact +FAT for the fat that's supposed to be added. I have no clue how much, so I just put twice the amount of CS. We don't have Mareks or AI here (knock on wood), but soak any hatching eggs I buy in Odoban for a minute. I spray the box of eggs before I even open it, then spray the inside too.

They also get 1/2 dose of Rooster Booster Granules mixed in the feed. That I've always done. I ferment grains too so didn't want to OD them lol.

Thank you! I had been adding a few drops of olive oil to bind the powder to their feed before making the mash. I’ve been feeding their loading doses as a snack so I can see that they’re eating it, but as we move forward I’ll be adding it to their general food. I was more concerned about rancidity adding oil to their pellets/crumble since with just a handful of bird it takes quite a bit of time to eat their regular feed.

 

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I’m so sorry to hear about your flock troubles. Although I don’t have any experience with Marek’s, I do read a lot of hatchery breed info, and thought you might be interested in a “breed” from Ideal Poultry called Ideal 236.

From their website:
The Ideal 236 is a highly productive white egg layer that was originally developed at Ideal Poultry Breeding Farms Inc. in the 1960's from White Leghorns, Brown Leghorns, Anconas and California Grays for resistance to Marek's disease. Ideal 236 chicks have single combs and are pale yellow, with some having a small number of black spots. They have clean, yellow legs and feet. Adults have white plumage with a few black spots and a body that is similar but slightly larger than a typical White Leghorn.

Not sure if you’d be interested in the future, but they are supposed to be bred for resistance. Good luck!

Oh this is good info! Thank you!

I had read that the EF’s were supposed to be resistant but since I don’t free range and have (at least currently) pretty chill breeds, I didn’t think they would be a good fit for us. I will definitely look into these for the future. My original plan was to stick with heritage type breeds with low key personalities (though I know hatchery birds may have negated the benefit there and the EE’s are counter to that plan). Everything has kind of been spun on axis now so I will definitely be looking at any potential breeds that are showing resistance to MDV.

 

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So, my remaining BA hen started with the loose poop yesterday. This is how my other hen started presenting before she stopped laying and then stopped eating. It could the bailcalin I have added to her food but she’s eaten it before with no issues so I think that’s a stretch.

At this point I’m going to outright cancel the other order and just ride this out with the chickens I currently have. I’m not going to add the other pullets until we have resolution in my main coop. They can stay in the temp set up a bit longer.

It’s crazy that all 3 were vaccinated and I’m going to lose all of them from this. I know they can still get sick while vaccinated but I thought it was supposed to hinder development of the neoplasia. A 100% fail rate seems excessive…

Sigh. This sucks.