Connection between feeding mash or pellets, and the likelihood of rat problems

[Rustico]

I have long been interested in any possible link between the type of poultry feed used and the likelihood of rodent problems in and around the house and run. I would like to feel that this poll will give a representative reply, for which I need as many as possible to reply.

Please note that only one reply is needed - please select which applies in your case, whether it is 1, 2, 3 or 4. Only one reply is needed, and only one will be accepted.

The poll closes at the end of July, at which point I will post the outcome for all to see.

Many thanks,
Alec.

 

[chooks4life]

Pellet or mash they have the same ingredients in most cases. Rats like both. They'll eat most things.

Your rodent control mechanisms, whether it's the baits you use, or your cat, or the neighborhood predators, are the biggest determinant of whether you have rodent problems or not. That, and whether or not you leave the food around overnight.

I didn't vote because I don't use pellets or mash. I make up my own feed with grains and other protein sources and supplements.

Best wishes.

 

[Wishapup]

I feed pellets. I used to have a problem with rats, and while this problem has been eliminated for some time, I selected the "have problem with rats" option.

Interesting research!

 

[RonP]

I feed pellets.
I posted this just today on another query:

My understanding is that rats are everywhere.
They will congregate and breed where there is available food.
Look closely around any fast food restaurant and you will see rat traps.

They will eventually come, the idea is to prevent them from establishing a colony.
If you see 1, there are probably fifty.
If you see two or more holes, expect dozens.
Keeping a rat trap/poison station bated 24/7 hopefully keeps the population from establishing near your food source.
Once established, they are very difficult to eliminate.

Remember, chickens don't attract rats, food does.

That said, I fabricated black 6 inch circular x 18" long drainage plastic pipe as a bait station.
Placed along the outside of my coop, looks like drainage pipe (not unsightly).
I put a t fitting in the center, capped, for easy viewing once a week.
Inside I maintain commercial rat poison.

My run has food scraps 24/7.
My coop has food access 24/7.
Water access 24/7.

5 years, no sign of rats...

 

[Wishapup]

And a note: while other elimination methods definitely work, we found it also helpful to put our flock's feeding on a schedule for several weeks. Fed in the morning and at night. The feeder was not kept with more than a scoop or two of feed in it during the day.

To live in an area, rats need a source of food, water, and shelter. By disrupting/restricting one of these things, it is possible to discourage them.

We have not had a problem with rats ever since.

 

[Rustico]

Thanks to all for your comments so far. I agree with all the points made - avoiding rodent problems is largely down to general cleanliness and ensuring that food is kept out of their way. However, I have found in the past that three neighbours (at different addresses) who fed mash did have problems, while I (with my pellets) avoided them. I also find that mash is more likely to become spread about by the pecking action. So, assuming that those who reply to the poll are a cross-section of poultry keepers, with a variety of ways of feeding their flock, I still think it will give a useful overall picture as to whether one method is preferable to the other. Please continue to add your responses!

Maybe the next question to be asked will be whether pellets lead to boredom and feather-pecking, as is often claimed, but that's one for the future - until then I firmly believe it's an old wives' tale!

 

[dirkfour4]

I feed pellets.
I posted this just today on another query:

My understanding is that rats are everywhere.
They will congregate and breed where there is available food.
Look closely around any fast food restaurant and you will see rat traps.

They will eventually come, the idea is to prevent them from establishing a colony.
If you see 1, there are probably fifty.
If you see two or more holes, expect dozens.
Keeping a rat trap/poison station bated 24/7 hopefully keeps the population from establishing near your food source.
Once established, they are very difficult to eliminate.

Remember, chickens don't attract rats, food does.

That said, I fabricated black 6 inch circular x 18" long drainage plastic pipe as a bait station.
Placed along the outside of my coop, looks like drainage pipe (not unsightly).
I put a t fitting in the center, capped, for easy viewing once a week.
Inside I maintain commercial rat poison.

My run has food scraps 24/7.
My coop has food access 24/7.
Water access 24/7.

5 years, no sign of rats...

have you had dead rats in the tube? or no rats at all.

 

[RonP]

I have never seen a rat period.

Total length of the tube is only around 24 inches with the t in the middle.
I haven't seen chipmunks or mice either tho

.

Nothing has touched the bait in at least 6 months.
I have spilled scratch in the storage area of the coup that has been there 6 plus months also.

This method definitely works well for me.

FYI
In another location / home if had a constant battle with rats.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!
When i set this coop up 5 years ago, I used this preventive measure to insure it would not repeat itself.

 

[chooks4life]

Maybe the next question to be asked will be whether pellets lead to boredom and feather-pecking, as is often claimed, but that's one for the future - until then I firmly believe it's an old wives' tale!

I believe it, but it doesn't apply to all pellets, or all chooks, and in my opinion, the pellet form itself is not at fault, it's the lack of nutrition in the pellet when combined with the breeds which are prone to cannibalism, which is itself blameable on the husbandry methods utilized in keeping and developing these breeds, and also the method used for selecting breeders: production statistics alone. Harmful social traits were not taken into consideration when selecting breeders. The financial bottom line was all that mattered, which is really a false economy when we're talking about health, lol....

Some pellets i.e. most commercial layer pellets (and mashes as well) were specifically developed in conjunction with some breeds, i.e. those designed for high production, short lives, very restricted and refined diets, to live in commercial factory settings.

These hens have very carefully restricted fat, oil and protein levels in the feeds because when they get enough to meet their own needs as well as the physical demands of their production, they lay less, build up body fat, and are more likely to go into moult or brood. The commercial bottom line prefers hens who lay nonstop until culling age, and to ensure that, they have to be kept nutritionally desperate.

Processing feeds into pellet or mash form cooks the oils and fats they need in raw form for total health. Just like us, they do better with raw oils etc rather than cooked ones in their diet, and not meeting their needs causes a kind of generationally escalating insanity, or 'pika' specifically, because the starting health status of each chick is dependent on and visibly impacted by the preceding few generations beyond its immediate parents. Over thousands of generations of being raised exclusively on this specifically limiting diet, bred for greater and greater production in overcrowded environments, cannibalism and neurotic behaviors developed and became strong breed traits because under these circumstances they rendered benefits and were positive traits. In the wild they'd die out almost instantly.

These chickens have been inadvertently selected for cannibalistic traits and neuroses, before the concept of culling for negative social traits took hold as good husbandry practice, because before that, all they did was remove the corpses, debeak them, etc. As a rule, each hen was selected for breeding based sometimes solely on her output. If her output was slightly greater because she cannibalized her cage-mates, she would pass on the behavioral trait that was helping her to both secure her nutritional needs, produce slightly more, and thereby a place in the breeding program.

Her cage mates contain raw oils and proteins and fats, which are converted easily and with little waste compared to cooked proteins, fats, oils etc, which allow short term survival but tend to become stored fat deposits and waste products unlike raw alternatives.

Many of these 'complete' commercial feeds cause diseases of malnutrition. Some of those diseases take years to kill so it's not a commercial concern unless you're trying to market the very healthiest eggs possible. Every hen who cannibalized would be a bit more vital in health terms than her non-cannibal sisters who subsisted on cooked pellets or mash alone. Her chicks would hatch healthier by a slight margin and therefore perform better than other chicks of which some are already suffering diseases of malnutrition by the time they hatch, which is obviously due to the mothers' lack, which in turn is due to the grandmothers' lack.

There are high producers who don't cannibalize, of course, but there's more than one means to an end. It's no coincidence the cannibalistic/neurotic traits are confined to mainly a few massively commercial breeds and any breeds raised in the same environment, on an identical or similar diet, for enough generations.

I've personally experimented for years with breeding in and out various traits, behavioral, taught, etc, and so have many scientists, and it's proven to take only a few generations to breed a behavioral trait in or out, such as cannibalism, and it only takes one intense experience in an animal's life to cement a certain reaction to a certain stimuli into its descendants.

Some hatchery chicks will begin cannibalizing others as they hatch, before they've even used up the absorbed yolk supply. It's now just how they think, this perception of one another as walking food sources.

Cannibalism isn't something all chooks automatically resort to when needing more nutrition, or bored, or seeing blood, despite the common belief; it's an aberrant behavior we bred into some of them.

Best wishes.

 

[chooks4life]

A bit more on-topic... I did have a short-term rat problem but it was self-containing, due to living out in the bush. The native animals took care of most of it.

It was a strange issue because my rat problem consisted of only one rat, despite there being others present. This rat was too smart to trap, initially at least. She was massive, unusually ugly, of the species normally seen along oceanfronts in big cities. She was the only one of that species there.

The resident natives looked like cartoonishly fat, round, tiny versions of rats, or oversized versions of mice, like they'd been drawn to look cute as compared to normal rats or mice. Too big to be mice, but not rats as we know them. They presented no issue to us or the poultry.

She hybridized with the males of this other species, but their intermediate-sized offspring didn't appear to live long past adulthood, and she killed the resident rats whenever she could. She was at least twice their size, looked and acted very different, more like a weasel.

She mutilated some of my poultry, then moved into the house with me despite my ongoing campaign to kill her, and keep her out of the house, whichever worked first. The other rats stayed away from the house and never harmed the poultry though they did take a few eggs. On the other hand, she was like some kind of malicious ninja who would raid whole nests to leave crippled but not dead babies strewn around.

I didn't use baits due to having pet cats, dogs, etc, numerous livestock including chooks who like to eat rats, and of course native animals in abundance.

Eventually I managed to get her addicted to free choice treats of dark chocolate, and once addicted, she got stupid enough to wrestle with a trap I'd taped the chocolate to. Mostly she succeeded at that, she was too smart to get caught, but addiction to dark chocolate makes rodents do some seriously stupid things. The trap didn't kill her, but caught her long enough for me to get my dog to finish her off, and thus ended her few years of terrorizing the area.

Anyway, there are thousands of species of rodents and most are territorial to some extent and practice some kind of self population control, only some form colonies and only two species of rats prefer human areas, the rest prefer to avoid us like the plague, so unless you live near a city or an established colony you're not too likely to suffer big issues. Not all rats and mice need eradicating if seen around.

Best wishes.