Cornbread rat cure

[Al Gerhart]

I don't know about laser beams, but I thought these were hilarious https://a.co/d/7aFlUaJ

Those chicken arms are flipping the bird....Hilarious

 

[Al Gerhart]

I respect what you're saying, and I also respect that you're selling (I base that on your signature) a very good feeder that helps manage or eliminate the problem of easy access to food which is likely the biggest issue that people need to address or we wouldn't even be here talking about them. Spillage and easy access to food is a huge part of the problem, not to mention various other things around your house that feed them. Pet food, garbage, wild bird feeders without a catch net to keep it off the ground, the list goes on and on.

This isn't about taste, it's about the inflammation to tissue caused by the high levels of the stuff. it changes the bird seed color to orange when you mix the oil around in it and stir it good.

I spent quite a bit of time researching today and really didn't find much to support its worthless as a deterrent but in some cases it may not be effective at low dosage. I checked your post history and didn't see the link to an article but admittedly it was kind of kludgy opening every post trying to find it.

Can you post your link again? I'm really interested in learning more, keeps the brain healthy.

edit: Sorry had to make a few edits.

Well, ever hear of the Search function? Thirty seconds searching for capsaicin study rats on this forum showed the thread. Here is what I posted. Actually, it is the second post on this very thread.

"This would be awesome were it actually a valid method but too many studies have been done, peer reviewed studies, to give much credence to capsaicin working long term. Here is an exert from one study. To set it up, they offered two feeds,one treated with capsaicin at different heat levels (SHU) and one normal feed. Plus they had another study done previously as a control, just plain untreated feed.

Quote:

https://archive.org/download/wikipe...s/10.1002%2Fpon.3910.zip/10.1002%2Fps.705.pdf

For both treated diets, results of pairwise comparisons reflected perceived differences in alternative feed that was available to rodents among sites (Table1). At sites 1 and 3, additional feed
sources, were low to moderate, and feeding stations were located in small buildings (45 and 20m2, respectively). Similar patterns in response to the treated diets were observed at each of these sites. Initially, consumption of the poultry feed decreased dramatically at sites 1 and 3 when the 2000SHU diet was offered, and remained low for 8 days. Thereafter, feed consumption increased and approached pre-treatment levels of consumption. Tolerance of rodents to the capsaicin may have increased over this time period and, with a lack of alternative feed, animals had probably reached some hunger threshold. At site 1, rats did not decrease feed consumption when offered the 3000SHU diet. Previous exposure to the 2000SHU diet may have increased tolerance to capsaicin. In additional, rats may have become more dependent on the poultry feed. This explanation is supported in part by the increase in consumption of the control diet over the three2-week periods that it was offered at site1.


Consumption of the control diet did not change over the study period at site 3, but consumption of both treated diets increased over the 2-week periods they were offered. Moreover, carry-over effects may have influenced feed consumption when diet treatments were changed, although visual inspection of the data suggests that any such effects were likely minimal (Figs1and2)

End quote.

In short, they found that adding capsaicin to chicken feed did produce temporary results until the rodents became accustomed to it, then the liked it as much as the untreated feed. But, in the short term, it did lead the rodents to prefer the bait they set out, albeit bait without the poison. Obviously they couldn't use poison bait or their rats would die so they used the bait without the poison.

The bad news, 4% by weight capsaicin was used. An ounce of pure capsaicin runs $20.00 on Amazon. A bag of feed, 50 pounds, needs roughly two pounds of capsaicin. Do the math, even a one pound container of plain cayenne pepper costs $20 plus shipping so $40.00 plus to treat one bag of chicken feed. It would be cheaper to just buy more feed for the rats.

What you saw was real but it was the initial reaction to something unfamiliar and rats are very smart. When he got hungry he would be back and in a few days it would be eating as much as before"

And yes, I sell a product that was developed right here in BYC back in 2011 and 2012 if I remember right. The feed back from early customers, including complaints, spurred development from just listening to what people were dealing with and the road blocks they faced.

But, science is science, just because advice comes from someone selling a solution doesn't mean the advice is bad. I usually quote Howard E.'s three methods, sanitation, exclusion, and elimination. I make money off one of the three and it just so happens I chose the method that costs flock owners the least amount of money. Selling poisons and traps would be far more profitable. Selling capsaicin would be even more profitable so why don't I recommend that? Because it would be unethical, selling a way of dealing with symptoms instead of selling a cure.

Back to the study, using the capsaicin does work for a few days and it can be used to drive rats to eat other feed laced with poison, maybe. But on its own the rats get used to it, then they prefer it. Look at the last sentenced emphasized in bold text.

 

[Al Gerhart]

I read this on line, so who knows what. I know my experience is inductive reasoning, but the Jiffy/baking soda seems to work here. For now!

Now, help me out here please. I would love to understand the thought process going on here and educate myself.

You quoted a source without a link so it can't be verified, with information that was the opposite of all the links from pet rat forums stating that YES RATS CAN FART.

Other posts, including the one where the Bob guy trapped some rats and did his own test, and the scientific, peer review studies, that also said that it would take 20% of a rat's body weight in bicarbonate of soda, AKA baking soda, to kill a rat. 40% if we follow your recipe of mixing it with cornbread mix. Let's say you weigh 100 pounds, eat lots of salads, would you, or could you, eat 50 pounds of your cornbread/baking soda mix?

Now, with all these facts facing your view, including one well respected veteran poster that tried the method, can you educate me as to why you still believe baking soda and cornbread mix will work? Don't mean to be disrespectful, but it is very curious.

 

[McChooky]

For more than a month now I have been using 50% Jiffy cornbread mix with 50% baking soda and a small handful of sugar mixed in, as recommended by a farmer who told me how to control rats. “Rats can’t burp a fart,” he said. I have scooped up 6 rats so far—2 dead and 4 barely alive. I have not seen a rat, either. But I know they are eating the mix because I see the excrement. Let them. They’ll die. I don’t like killing anything but I had to do something. The hens have half a garage and a run. I put the mix in the half of garage they cannot get to. It isn’t the greatest thing for your dog or cat to eat but it is NOT poison, and if an animal eats a dead rat, the ingested mix won’t kill the animal. I can’t think of a better way to do this. I still spray coop twice a week with a peppermint mix spray. It just smells so good! Photo: those are my barn cats. They find rats and mice distasteful and will stick to the occasional butterfly.

It doesn't take much food to sustain a rat so be diligent.Remove all food sources so they'll have to eat each other just to survive. Eventually they'll die off. I feed a stray cat thats been hanging around about a year and remove all uneaten food soon as he walks away

 

[old mama hen]

I want to thank every one for their replies. I had checked videos out about it and thought it would work. Going to check out other remedies.

 

[SandyRiverChick]

You know, last time I checked with Howard E., I lamented that he wasn't on the forum and asked why. He said he got tired of giving out advice that people wouldn't follow. He did an amazing job of researching and presenting the facts but he just got worn down. You said you tried a few of those methods, Howard E.'s three methods? Which one worked for you. He would be happy as hell to know his message got through to and that it solved your problem.

Rodent reproduction, their gestation period is three weeks, they wean at another three weeks and two weeks later they become of breeding age. Credible science states a pair of rats can breed another 1,250 in one year, this story claims it with unlimited resources, no disease, and no predators that can produce a half billion off spring in three years. 500 million potential rats from just one breeding pair... Wait till the gubermint figures out they can feed them to us... or feed us to them... Solyent Green! https://www.qualityassurancemag.com...ce-half-a-billion-descendants-in-three-years/

I don't blame Howard E. for getting tired of the debate, I was even part of it until I wasn't. When I first read his paper, I thought I was doomed and it seemed overwhelming so I basically let the population continue to expand due to wasting a ton of time reading other BYC er's quick fixes. Now I have ton's of reading time to waste because I have no problems to solve for. I did the 3 steps. I nuked the little beatches just one bite for 2 weeks,) I made my coop bomber, I NEVER leave feed out (store overnight in metal bins,) and I have 3 feral cat's on patrol (I'm sure they don't eat Rats, but Rat's don't want to get caught and batted around to death by a cat either.) My feeders, only out during daytime are supposed to be Rat proof but even still I have them inside tubs so that even a few dropped crumbles get's dumped into metal can's at night. It really wasn't so hard and it really solved the problem. SO please do thank him for me and tell him I apologize for ever looking at other quick fixes. The reality is that those "fixes" are actually more work than doing the right thing, the Howard E. thing. Boom, done.

 

[Al Gerhart]

I don't blame Howard E. for getting tired of the debate, I was even part of it until I wasn't. When I first read his paper, I thought I was doomed and it seemed overwhelming so I basically let the population continue to expand due to wasting a ton of time reading other BYC er's quick fixes. Now I have ton's of reading time to waste because I have no problems to solve for. I did the 3 steps. I nuked the little beatches just one bite for 2 weeks,) I made my coop bomber, I NEVER leave feed out (store overnight in metal bins,) and I have 3 feral cat's on patrol (I'm sure they don't eat Rats, but Rat's don't want to get caught and batted around to death by a cat either.) My feeders, only out during daytime are supposed to be Rat proof but even still I have them inside tubs so that even a few dropped crumbles get's dumped into metal can's at night. It really wasn't so hard and it really solved the problem. SO please do thank him for me and tell him I apologize for ever looking at other quick fixes. The reality is that those "fixes" are actually more work than doing the right thing, the Howard E. thing. Boom, done.

Thank you so much for posting this. Howard's advice brought to mind one of the quotes attributed to Malcom X and I am sure I will butcher it but it goes something like this: Decide what you want, pay for it, and take it.

I am somewhat involved in politics in my state and people are always looking for that quick fix. If we all sign this petition. If we support this politician. They search for the golden bullet that will solve the problems we face.

No, the way is to do the hard work needed, fight to put the right people that are courageous and refuse to quit in place, then put pressure on the opposition by walking districts, posting flyers, mailing mailers and raising considerable money to do so. The point isn't to educate the voters, it is to force the bad guys to respond to the message until soon they are spreading your message and arguing why they cannot or will not do it. You don't care if a single voter reads the flyers, you care that the bad guy knows a huge number of his voters know the truth.

You did all three methods, elimination with the one bite, sanitation with a treadle feeder, bulk feed in metal drums, not sure if you cleaned up the pathways but you had cats patrolling so there is that. And you backed it up with a tight coop, the exclusion method. Once you tightened up the coop and locked away the feed, the one bite bait became the last food available so it increased the efficiency of the bait.

A wonderful success story! Just remember though, the sanitation alone will work if you buy the right feeder that doesn't have negative feedback on rats getting inside, get the bulk feed in metal drums with tight lids, and clean up the pathways. Boom....done.. as you so well said.

 

[McChooky]

I want to thank every one for their replies. I had checked videos out about it and thought it would work. Going to check out other remedies.

When I moved in this place 10 yrs ago I inherited some rats so I fed them dry instant mashed potatoes (the cheapest I could find)Keeping a bowl of fresh clean water beside the bowl of potato flakes will encourage them to drink more water and cause the flakes to swell.I had a pest control employee give me this tip when we got rats at a guardhouse in Rural Hall NC.I never saw the first dead rat but they all disappeared

 

[McChooky]

Wish I had heard about this when I had a rat problem and a useless outdoor male cat…would have been happy to do some science on my local rat population hahaha

Most cats have to be desperate to kill or eat a rat but they'll kill the baby rats. Without the babies the colony dies off

 

[McChooky]

Thank You! Heading to the store to buy some Jiffy cornbread mix! I have mint that I am also going to plant on the outside of the chicken yard. The rats are terrible and now I'm afraid mites have transferred from the rats to my hens.

Mites are species specific depending on the animal.In other words a mite from a rat won't live on a chicken or bird