Day 21 and no pips

[Tvan18]

This is my first time trying my hand at incubating eggs, I started with 18 eggs (Marans, Cochins, RIR bantams, silkie, EE, and brabanter x pav). I am now day 21 today with no external pips. I locked down the night of day 16 due to having bantam eggs too as I had read I should, but event those have not pipped.
I am feeling very discouraged now and wondering if something happened from lockdown to now as when I candled before lockdown only 2 eggs needed to be removed for lack of development humidity has been steady between 70-75% and temp holding at 100°f.
I’ll include some pictures from last candle (day 16)
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[BarnyardChaos]

Patience.
Day 21 is just the average number of days to hatch, but it's not uncommon for them to hatch anywhere between days 19-23, or even later. Can you tell if they've pipped internally? To see that, you candle the eggs and look for a triangular shaped indention near the edge of the air sac.

Sometimes, if they pip internally, they won't pip externally until just before zipping. Or they'll just do an external pip only, and then it could be up to 24 hours to hatch after that. So lack of pips on Day 21 could mean they've just pipped internally and are taking a long rest before the hardest work begins.

 

[Tvan18]

Patience.
Day 21 is just the average number of days to hatch, but it's not uncommon for them to hatch anywhere between days 19-23, or even later. Can you tell if they've pipped internally? To see that, you candle the eggs and look for a triangular shaped indention near the edge of the air sac.

Sometimes, if they pip internally, they won't pip externally until just before zipping. Or they'll just do an external pip only, and then it could be up to 24 hours to hatch after that. So lack of pips on Day 21 could mean they've just pipped internally and are taking a long rest before the hardest work begins.

Thank you! I had not checked for internal pips because I was worried if I open the incubator now that I may do damage. I will try that later today.

 

[BarnyardChaos]

Thank you! I had not checked for internal pips because I was worried if I open the incubator now that I may do damage. I will try that later today.

I believe that's a myth. Think about it; the mother hen sitting on her eggs will get up once or twice a day to eat, drink and maybe poop, and she might be off the nest for 15-30 minutes at a time. They're fine.

The minor fluctuations in egg temperature during these breaks won't hurt them. It's only if the eggs get overheated or too chilled, or it happens too frequently, that they could be damaged.

But just to be sure they don't chill, I do this: When I remove the lid of the incubator prior to candling, I'll lay a fluffy towel over them to retain heat. Then I lift it momentarily to retrieve or replace the eggs while I work with them.

 

[Tvan18]

I believe that's a myth. Think about it; the mother hen sitting on her eggs will get up once or twice a day to eat, drink and maybe poop, and she might be off the nest for 15-30 minutes at a time. They're fine.

The minor fluctuations in egg temperature during these breaks won't hurt them. It's only if the eggs get overheated or too chilled, or it happens too frequently, that they could be damaged.

But just to be sure they don't chill, I do this: When I remove the lid of the incubator prior to candling, I'll lay a fluffy towel over them to retain heat. Then I lift it momentarily to retrieve or replace the eggs while I work with them.

That definitely makes sense. Thank you for the advice. It’s super helpful. I’m definitely going to use the towel trick when candling.

 

[Tvan18]

It was hard to take pictures when I am alone, but I was able to check some and the only one that I am seeing that maybe looks like an internal pip, or is close to it, is my silkie egg.
I had to stop part way through because my little ones needed me, but I will attempt the rest tonight.

 

[BarnyardChaos]

Oh dear, I hate to tell you this.... but those don't look like Day 21 eggs. They should be completely filled with dark shape, except for the air sac. You should see no available space in the rest of the egg at all. Are you quite sure it's Day 21? When did you set them?

 

[Tvan18]

that was my worry. I set them the night of the 22nd and counted the 23rd as day one. So I’m pretty sure that it’s day 21 today. Some of the other eggs look very dark without space, but it didn’t appear there was a pip in the air sac. I will try to get a picture of those later, maybe they aren’t what I think either.

 

[BarnyardChaos]

You counted correctly, but (the end of) Day 21 isn't until tonight at the same time you set them on the night of the 22nd. Regardless, those aren't Day 20 eggs, either. Something's wrong. They *could* be very slow developing if incubator temperatures were on the low side, or other factors. I'd give them until Day 24 or 25 before giving up on them.

FWIW, my last batch of eggs (38) didn't pip externally until the start of Day 22. I had to help a few of the stragglers out on Day 23, and lost one, but got 83% success rate.

 

[Ridgerunner]

The minor fluctuations in egg temperature during these breaks won't hurt them. It's only if the eggs get overheated or too chilled, or it happens too frequently, that they could be damaged.

The concern in opening it is not temperature, it's humidity. At that stage the chick inside the egg is generating a lot of heat itself. The temperature at that stage is even less important than earlier in incubation, and I've seen broody hens off of the nest for over an hour at a time when they come off even early in incubation and still get great hatches,

The concern is that when the incubator is opened the humidity inside drops enough to shrink-wrap the chick. That's where the membrane around the chick dries out and shrinks around the chick tight enough that the chick cannot move to hatch. There are several threads on this forum telling you how to assist a shrink wrapped chick. With that many people telling you how to work with a shrink wrapped chick you'd think it may be a real thing. I've had a couple myself. This can happen without even opening the incubator but the highest risk is when the humidity is too low and he chick has external pipped. The reason we raise the humidity at lockdown is to avoid shrink wrapping the chicks.

With that said shrink wrap hardly ever happens, even if you open the incubator when an egg has external pipped. Conditions have to be "right" for shrink wrap to happen. I consider the risk to often be greatly exaggerated. Plenty of people open the incubator even when an egg has external pipped and never have an issue.

Since I believe shrink wrap can happen I consider it best practices to not take an unnecessary risk without a real reason. That does not mean I'm afraid to open the incubator if I have what I consider a legitimate reason. If I have a problem in the incubator I'll weigh the risks and make a decision. When a half shell slipped around an unhatched egg I did not hesitate to fix that. To me, OOOOH that chick is so cute, I have to cuddle it is not a legitimate excuse.

@Tvan18 at this point, I would not candle them. Your counted correctly so this is Day 21. What decision will you make when you candle them? What will you change? At this stage I don't see anything that you can do that will change the outcome. I take the approach that since it won't make any difference in what I do then I try to interfere as little as possible. Just let it play out.