Dead chick autopsy

[Altairsky]

Adding that the antidote to rat poison is vitamin k. Give vitamin K to all birds if you suspect they might have eaten rat poison.

 

[Ray987]

I want to thank everyone for all the of the helpful information you're providing it's truly amazing, the deaths has slowed down today (I lost 4 total out of 54) I checked their crops and only 2 chicks had full crops and declining the rest had emptied overnight, as a hopeless attempt I added some ACV to their water today and they seem fine so far, none of them declined after eating and drinking

Now I'm trying to get to the bottom of this and here are the possibilities:

1- The feed or water caused it?
I highly doubt it's the feed I'm feeding the same feed to my hens (they lay eggs every day and seem healthy) also to my quails (also laying eggs everyday) same water source for all.

2- The toltrazuril & antibiotics+vitamins caused it?
I've given my hens and quails same antibiotics+vitamins but not the toltrazuril I thought antibiotics support growth in poultry could it really have caused this?

3- Like many suggested here chicks might've eaten something bad out there while free ranging like Rat poison, I wouldn't rule this option out because just about the same time this started happening one of my brahma chicks (4 months old) got paralyzed at the bottom half, can't move legs at all but when I offer food it ate and drank normally it didn't lose appetite at all (my brahma chicks live with the 54 chicks that are having issues) they go out together and free range also one of the little chicks currently looking half paralyzed it can walk but it's losing balance and sit on it's joints basically seems like it's gonna get fully paralyzed soon

Conclusion: the chicks are probably poisoned either from eating something they shouldn't have out there or from the medicine??

Definitely not the feed or my hens and quails would be sick too...

Thanks again everyone I'm trying to get to the bottom of it and hope this post helps people in the future if they have similar cases, sorry I can't get a necropsy done it's literally impossible over here

 

[coach723]

I'm very sorry that you are not able to get any testing done, it must be very frustrating.
I don't think toltrazuril would cause this, unless it was really badly overdosed. Most of what I can find says you would have to give 100 times the suggested dose to see any toxicity. I'm not finding any listed interactions with other drugs, but I don't know what antibiotic you used, it would be better to look it up with that one specifically.
The symptoms of the chicks and the brahma's does not match what is typically seen in botulism poisoning. The brahma's does resemble what you might see with Marek's disease, though there are other things that can mimic those symptoms. Without testing, again, it's impossible to know. For the brahma's you can try supplementing them with B vitamins, a human supplement, B complex or Super B complex, once a day. Riboflavin and thiamine in particular can cause neuro muscular symptoms, like curled toes, hock sitting, balance and paralysis symptoms if deficient. And it won't hurt anything to try, to see if it helps. Extra will be excreted. Just put it in the beak of those with symptoms, push it back, they will swallow it.
Mycotoxin poisoning does match what is going on with the chicks, but I can't say for sure that's what it is without testing or evidence. There are certainly other toxins that could have similar symptoms, including fluids leaking from machinery, pesticides, etc. This link discusses mycotoxin poisoning and possible symptoms. Chicks would be more susceptible than older birds, meaning a smaller amount would affect them. Kidney and liver damage are common ones, as well as GI issues.
https://www.msdvetmanual.com/poultry/mycotoxicoses-in-poultry/mycotoxicoses-in-poultry
It's also possible that you have something viral or bacterial going on, again, without testing it's really impossible to tell.
I sincerely hope you don't lose any more. Really all you can do is look at all possible things it could be, check the environment and everything in it, dismiss nothing, assume nothing, have an open mind, and hopefully identify something. Be a detective, in other words. Sometimes we can miss things, because it seems so unlikely. I have changed feeds in the past if something is going on with my birds, just to make sure that wasn't it. A couple of times it was. For whatever reason, there is (was) one brand that several of my birds were having a hard time digesting and I had a slew of crop issues. Cleared up when I switched feed. It might be a good idea at this point to start keeping a notebook, recording who gets sick, symptoms, dates, etc, as many details as possible, and when all is seen together it may show a better picture that provides clues. It also makes it much easier to remember things.
So sorry.

 

[Ray987]

I'm very sorry that you are not able to get any testing done, it must be very frustrating.
I don't think toltrazuril would cause this, unless it was really badly overdosed. Most of what I can find says you would have to give 100 times the suggested dose to see any toxicity. I'm not finding any listed interactions with other drugs, but I don't know what antibiotic you used, it would be better to look it up with that one specifically.
The symptoms of the chicks and the brahma's does not match what is typically seen in botulism poisoning. The brahma's does resemble what you might see with Marek's disease, though there are other things that can mimic those symptoms. Without testing, again, it's impossible to know. For the brahma's you can try supplementing them with B vitamins, a human supplement, B complex or Super B complex, once a day. Riboflavin and thiamine in particular can cause neuro muscular symptoms, like curled toes, hock sitting, balance and paralysis symptoms if deficient. And it won't hurt anything to try, to see if it helps. Extra will be excreted. Just put it in the beak of those with symptoms, push it back, they will swallow it.
Mycotoxin poisoning does match what is going on with the chicks, but I can't say for sure that's what it is without testing or evidence. There are certainly other toxins that could have similar symptoms, including fluids leaking from machinery, pesticides, etc. This link discusses mycotoxin poisoning and possible symptoms. Chicks would be more susceptible than older birds, meaning a smaller amount would affect them. Kidney and liver damage are common ones, as well as GI issues.
https://www.msdvetmanual.com/poultry/mycotoxicoses-in-poultry/mycotoxicoses-in-poultry
It's also possible that you have something viral or bacterial going on, again, without testing it's really impossible to tell.
I sincerely hope you don't lose any more. Really all you can do is look at all possible things it could be, check the environment and everything in it, dismiss nothing, assume nothing, have an open mind, and hopefully identify something. Be a detective, in other words. Sometimes we can miss things, because it seems so unlikely. I have changed feeds in the past if something is going on with my birds, just to make sure that wasn't it. A couple of times it was. For whatever reason, there is (was) one brand that several of my birds were having a hard time digesting and I had a slew of crop issues. Cleared up when I switched feed. It might be a good idea at this point to start keeping a notebook, recording who gets sick, symptoms, dates, etc, as many details as possible, and when all is seen together it may show a better picture that provides clues. It also makes it much easier to remember things.
So sorry.

Appreciate all the info, it is frustrating and I'm trying my best to build something different and thinking to build a big brick coop with a large run to let them free range without getting exposed to stuff like rat poison and such, anyways I don't think i overdosed the toltrazuril I did 1ml for 1 liter (vet's said to do so) and that's the instructions on the bottle, having to weight every chick and dose them orally one by one is definitely a challenge

This is the Antibiotics I've been giving them it includes vitamins B6 & B12

Dose was 0.5g per 1 liter

I have a question about the dose in general and for example when you say 0.5g per 1 liter does that mean I can serve 2.5g in 5 liters or is that considered overdosing?

 

[coach723]

That would not be overdosing, the amount is based on dilution and the average amount they drink in a day, when medication is mixed in water. So that would be fine. When people treat chicks with amprolium for coccidiosis the instructions are for a gallon of drinking water, and people will often make less than that to reduce waste, so if they make 1/2 gallon or a pint, they reduce the medication amount a like amount, and it's fine. It's the dilution rate that matters, how much is in each ml they drink.
I've actually never heard of anyone having issues with toltrazuril, some people prefer it to amprolium as it's often more effective and the treatment time is shorter.
That antibiotic has 4 different medications in it, it should cover just about everything. As previously stated, antibiotics kill bad bacteria, and good bacteria, so it's often a good idea to follow with probiotics if possible, to help repopulate the good bacteria in the gut.
Were the brahma's getting the antibiotics also? For vitamin deficiencies, which are not uncommon at all, sometimes you have to give much higher amounts to get the deficiency reversed. Once it's reversed, they can maintain it with diet. Most standard vitamin supplements for poultry are going to have the recommended daily amount. You need more than that to reverse a deficiency. The B's are very safe and you don't have to worry about overdosing them. They are water soluble, and extra will be excreted in droppings. With fat soluble vitamins (like D and E) too much results in it being stored in fat cells or organs, and those can be overdosed. A B complex usually only contains the B's (do read the label) and is pretty safe.