Dun? Chocolate? What *IS* this color???

alohachickens

Crowing
17 Years
Dec 14, 2007
1,630
246
371
Phoenix, AZ
Hey everyone!

Update from Aloha Chicken world . . . where I'm working on a multi-colored mottled breed. (Web site here: http://alohachickens.webs.com/ )

Anyway, I did a "test hatch" in November with my new stock, hatched out about 25 chicks and culled, culled, culled down to four. Now, one of my goals is to get a buff & white mottled, and a "true red" and white mottled chicken. So I've been culling anything with too much black. Have you noticed that most RED chickens actually have BLACK tailfeathers?? Like, the NHR and RIR. Like my NHR cross - out of a mottled hen, an outcross roo I'll be using to help increase size. (He carries mottling gene.)

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Oh, and here's a hen who is a favorite of mine, her "black" tail has been replaced with blue color, very neat:

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So, anyway, here's the rooster I kept for my program. Note that he doesn't have the black tail, but heck, he's super mottled, so figured the white mottled feathers were just "hiding" what should have been a black tail tip:

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Anyway, above is the "daddy" to the roosters you'll see below:

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On the LEFT, is what I figured Daddy Roo would look like, if he didn't have that white on his tail. See that guy, he's red, with a little black on his tail, and white mottling on top. Sort of like the red NHR cross rooster, if you added white mottling to the mix. But more recently, I hatched out this other little guy with even less white than dad and his brother. And lo and behold - his tail has NO BLACK! It looks like a deeper more chocolate shade of dark brown? Here are a bunch more photos of the youngest red mottled roo, who I've nicknamed "Cinnaroo":

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So I went back and looked at Daddy Roo again, and I don't actually see any true black on him anywhere. I just assumed all along that the black was there, but it happened to be hidden underneath some white splashes or something.

Anyone care to guess what might be going on here? Definately looks like some darker shade of brown on what should be black areas . . . this suggests to me, some kind of modifier gene has hit the black and changed it to a rich dark brown . . . . but what gene? Ideas???

Thanks!!!

Sommer
 
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good morning...


the only way to find out is to breed it out with another bird that isn't from your flock... like a black one... that said, the chocolate and the dun gene breed out different... if it is indead a dun modifier gene, the babies will come out half dun, and half black... if it's the choc modifier gene, only the hens will come out chocolate, and hens will be black...



i think that's how it works...



but, that guy does look like a chocolate or dun colored roo... very gorgeous btw... what are they..?
 
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I agree would be dun

and agree that the white mottled (goldneck ) one is either dom white based, OR if he came from that blue tailed hen's line, he is just a sport version (splash) of them, which can come out like that at times. But looks more dominate white based. BUT if he's dom white, he shouldnt produce any offspring with black tails, or black anything for that matter. So if he's made offspring with black in them before, he's just a splash blue version
 
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Sommer, not sure how much you know about chicken colours and genetics, so I apologise if I am too elementary. Chickens have two colours of pigment in their plumage: eumelanin (black pigment) and pheomelanin (red pigment). Chickens also have gender-specific primary colour patterns. Depending on the base (E gene), those patterns may be altered a bit. The extended black E-allele pretty much gives a solidly black pigmented chicken. The birchen E-allele adds ground (red/gold) colour to the head, hackles and on males shoulders & saddle, as well as ground colour lacing to the breast. Wildtype, asiatic partridge and wheaten add a ground colour wing triangle at the tip of the wing, and do not have the breast lacing. Wildtype and asiatic partridge have black shafts in the hackles and tail. Wheaten does not have the black shafting. Females of all E-alleles except extended black tend to have reddish/salmon breasts.

White and silver are the absense of pigment. Blue, brown, dun, choc, lavender, gold, lemon, buff, mahogany, etc. are chemical alterations to one or both pigments (lavender also reduces pigment quantity).

There are genes that extend or remove ground or base colour to different areas of the body, as well as other genes that add patterns to the individual feathers (such as mottling, barring, lacing, spangling, etc.).

Chris09 put up a thread that contains a ton of photos, including some that show male vs female patterns. https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=343605&p=1
 
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oh, I didnt even notice the red wing bows there.
I had just woke up haha.

breeder< did he come from that blue tailed line? That would help narrow it down, of course, breeding him would too, if you put him back to that blue hen
 

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