FINAL NECROPSY RPT GO TO LAST POST --NIGHTMARE with CANKER

[2greenboyz]

I already posted about three weeks ago about a black sex link with possible worms (thirst, head shaking). Since then, I have treated 2ce Valbazen (already did the Wazine bit) and cleaned / dusted for mites and stuff. Last week I found answer - she had some yellow gunk on her throat, Dx'd myself that it is canker, so I researched and followed Dawg's suggestions to other members and I have now tx'd with FishZole 250 mg for 6 days. Today is no meds. Suggested Tx amounts and length are all over the place. Her original growth in her throat is gone, but I see residual yellow gunk on the edges of her mouth, so it isn't gone. Her symptoms have vastly improved, although some head shaking still exists, she is eating tons now.

What I have read is canker is really hard to get rid of. She is with one other adult - one year old. The patient is 3 years old. I have 3 11week old babies that have been exposed now b/c when I let them out after older girls go to roost they initially shared the water before I knew what it was. I am learning more about this disease than I ever wanted to know, and it is enough to make me want to just give up. My next move - I just went out and took a light and looked down both mouths. Like I said, the one has some yellow. The 1 yo looks clean. I'm going to treat tomorrow with Medizole (Ronidazole) in their water. Looks like I'm supposed to do that for 3-5 days and it is supposed to be safer than FishZole. If that doesn't work, I'll have to go to Cardizem (?) The sources said to rotate treatments b/c the pest develops immunity. I learned from pigeon owners that the pest actually begins in their crop and spreads up, it doesnt start in the mouth or throat and spread downward.

I know acidified copper sulfate is suggested by some, but I was told that was very risky to do because it is so poisonous. A little too much and they're dead.

Sorry about the length here if you are still with me , here's my questions:

1. I gave ProBios when I did the FishZole. ProBios was in the water. So can I add it to the Medizole solutble water or how should I keep down secondary bacterial during this part of the treatment?

2. Do you think I should treat the babies at this time also since they've been exposed?

3. More suggestions would be appreciated - should I get the Cardizem stuff so I'm ready to go with that?

Please advise me on this..... I want this nightmare to be over with. (BTW - no wild birds get in there - it's a covered run)

 

[dawg53]

I already posted about three weeks ago about a black sex link with possible worms (thirst, head shaking). Since then, I have treated 2ce Valbazen (already did the Wazine bit) and cleaned / dusted for mites and stuff. Last week I found answer - she had some yellow gunk on her throat, Dx'd myself that it is canker, so I researched and followed Dawg's suggestions to other members and I have now tx'd with FishZole 250 mg for 6 days. Today is no meds. Suggested Tx amounts and length are all over the place. Her original growth in her throat is gone, but I see residual yellow gunk on the edges of her mouth, so it isn't gone. Her symptoms have vastly improved, although some head shaking still exists, she is eating tons now.

What I have read is canker is really hard to get rid of. She is with one other adult - one year old. The patient is 3 years old. I have 3 11week old babies that have been exposed now b/c when I let them out after older girls go to roost they initially shared the water before I knew what it was. I am learning more about this disease than I ever wanted to know, and it is enough to make me want to just give up. My next move - I just went out and took a light and looked down both mouths. Like I said, the one has some yellow. The 1 yo looks clean. I'm going to treat tomorrow with Medizole (Ronidazole) in their water. Looks like I'm supposed to do that for 3-5 days and it is supposed to be safer than FishZole. If that doesn't work, I'll have to go to Cardizem (?) The sources said to rotate treatments b/c the pest develops immunity. I learned from pigeon owners that the pest actually begins in their crop and spreads up, it doesnt start in the mouth or throat and spread downward.

I know acidified copper sulfate is suggested by some, but I was told that was very risky to do because it is so poisonous. A little too much and they're dead.

Sorry about the length here if you are still with me , here's my questions:

1. I gave ProBios when I did the FishZole. ProBios was in the water. So can I add it to the Medizole solutble water or how should I keep down secondary bacterial during this part of the treatment?

2. Do you think I should treat the babies at this time also since they've been exposed?

3. More suggestions would be appreciated - should I get the Cardizem stuff so I'm ready to go with that?

Please advise me on this..... I want this nightmare to be over with. (BTW - no wild birds get in there - it's a covered run)

I wouldnt mix anything in the water with the medication. I havnt heard of any of the other meds you mentioned except for the metronidazole. If all the birds were drinking from the contaminated waterers, there's a good chance it'll spread.
It would be best to provide copper sulfate in their water for 3 days once a month to keep it in check. Here's a link with directions. ETA; it's used for Blackhead treatment as well.
http://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/acidified_copper_sulfate.html

 

[2greenboyz]

Thanks Dawg53, I put her back on the FishZole this morn and will continue. I have seen improvement over the last week but I guess it needs a longer treatment period - Jebb's told me 3 days, she's had 6. Decided to swab out yellow I saw in mouth, so gave her two treatments of that so far. I'm looking for Nystatin to ward off secondary candida infection but can't find it locally and don't want to spend another $30 at Jebbs. <sigh>. Water has ACV, and I gave her bread soaked with ProBios, so I hope that will hold off any secondary. She is now eating well (and easier), that helps. She ate almost a whole egg this morning.

I will check your link, definitely. I've read so many horror stories about this nasty disease - doing my best to beat this one. Also found an article in the member's pages under Trich that is helping. Thank you again.

 

[MakNat]

I am going through the same thing with my main rooster Hoss. He was always to one to chase away those pesky birds. I never even heard of this 10 days ago. Hoss was acting 'off'. I picked him up and did an over all. Then... Don't know why. But opened and looked in his mouth. I freaked, couldn't believe it. I'm shooked he didn't show signs before. Started him on flagyl today and the others on the copper. Hope you have good news with yours!!

 

[2greenboyz]

Good you caught it quickly. I got this one from Blacksmiths Corner in LA (horrible dump of a place in retrospect) over two years ago and she has always drank a lot of water. Could never figure out why. I think she carried it then, and it just recently became aggressive. I never thought to look in her mouth. Earlier today she initially was eating really well, but now she seems not feeling too good. Got the Betadine and treated her with that - not happy. I wish there was more I could do ..... I have a feeling it is all through her - persistent diarrhea.

Wondering- can you give the copper sulfate stuff at same time you are treating with FishZole? I'll go get some tomorrow if I can..... probably overkill. I'm getting desperate here.

 

[dawg53]

Thanks Dawg53, I put her back on the FishZole this morn and will continue. I have seen improvement over the last week but I guess it needs a longer treatment period - Jebb's told me 3 days, she's had 6. Decided to swab out yellow I saw in mouth, so gave her two treatments of that so far. I'm looking for Nystatin to ward off secondary candida infection but can't find it locally and don't want to spend another $30 at Jebbs. <sigh>. Water has ACV, and I gave her bread soaked with ProBios, so I hope that will hold off any secondary. She is now eating well (and easier), that helps. She ate almost a whole egg this morning.

I will check your link, definitely. I've read so many horror stories about this nasty disease - doing my best to beat this one. Also found an article in the member's pages under Trich that is helping. Thank you again.

It's usually a recommended 5 day treatment with the fishzole. I'd continue to use it until it disappears. I wouldnt use copper sulfate in conjunction with the fishzole, I dont know what the results would be, could be bad news. ETA; you might be able to buy nystatin online, dont know if you need a script.

 

[chic-a-deee]

Hi,
Im sorry to hear about you dilemma with your beautiful birds.
Im concerned that if this goes on for too long it could lead to many deaths in ur flock.

This may sound pretty dumb, but why not phone a Vet? There are vets that specialize in birds & poultry. So instead of taking a chance on weeks of advice & using the hit or miss method, why not contact a vet?

And you can always take the sick bird into the vet so they can examine her properly? Im sure they can answer all ur questions about the spread of the disease. I dont know anything about it. If things dont work out in the first week, & she gets worse....then a vet is the way to go.

I have 4 chickens....they are as much a part of the family as our dog. So, vets would be my next move when everything else had been exhausted. Im sure you've spent heaps of $$ on the medicines...so it would be worth ur while to get the right one for the job from the vet???

Hope this helps.....please dont get this post wrong...& think Im preaching

I just thought before things get too bad that a vet should be consulted?
Good luck & best wishes for your lovely chooks.

 

[MakNat]

I've been searching for the fish zole and copper treatment at the same time safety and can not find an answer.

 

[2greenboyz]

Dawg you're probably right I'll just keep on keepin on, see what happens. If she continues to go downhill, I'll have to cull - hate to see her suffer. (and hate culling - can't do it myself I'm a wimp so it costs me $30 each time. Dang). The nystatin, should I need it, realized I can use that girly stuff for vaginal infections. I asked about it at Costco when I went in there today and that's what they showed me. I have some on hand already. Used to be an Rx, but no more.

And chic-a-deee, thanks for your well wishes. I take no offense at all. I live in the middle of the city (near Disneyland actually). Vets around here do not treat birds they do dogs and cats, and the one I know who does is - well - a jerk what can I say. There's another good clinic about 10 miles away they know what they are doing but they charge a fortune. I know b/c I spent over $800 on chickens! - Rescued Chickens! They won't give advice over the phone - wish they would but they would just say come on in we have an appt tomorrow. At least $60 the second you step thru the door. I'm not working anymore. Best vet I ever got was one that was just "filling in" one day - went for a cockatiel and he actually was a vet at the Long Beach Aquarium where they have Lories! Wish I could get him but he doesn't work at that clinic. No- I'm on my own. Unfortunately my little darlings have to suffer b/c of my bungles, but "live and learn" - . Been there done that with vets. Can't afford them. Thanks for your caring anyway I do appreciate it.

 

[dawg53]

Not many people can afford vets, me included. That's why I dont have dogs anymore. I have one cat that I promised my wife I'd take care of, and I have. I've taken him to the vet twice for respiratory issues and she has cut me some slack because my wife used to work there. No vets around here know anything about chickens anyway.