flock upsizing and management recommendations

[firefowl]

I've got two fairly large sized areas sectioned off for free-ranging poultry in my yard. Currently I'm not taking advantage of the space as I only have 2 chickens. The reason I have poultry is to have sustainable source of meat and eggs also for ferteliser and bug control. The one thing that's stopping me getting more chickens is housing but this will be built soon.

Currently these two areas I have sectioned off have very high grass as there is far too much for my 2 Araucana bantams to eat. One of them is currently broody so it's not eating any grass. I want to have enough poultry in the fields that I won't have to mow the grass.



The first field is 12.5 x 3.5m = 44m2. The only thing in this field is a bathtub that I plan to use as a duck pond.



I built a frame out of a pallet. The tub use to be a watering trough for some sheep I had. There was a crack in it I sealed it up with a product that is supposed to be safe for drinking water. The drain goes into a pipe with holes that leads to some trees I planted in the second field. So every week the duck water can be drained out and will fertilise my trees.



The second field is 12.5 x 8.5m = 106m2 which is where my 2 Aracauna bantams currently reside. They live in a movable A frame chicken tractor that is starting to fall apart.

So I want some recommendations as to what breeds of chicken and duck would be most suitable and how many to get. Especially need help with selecting a duck breed as I have no experience with ducks but have had chickens for several years.

The duck breed should have a good tempermeant in terms of getting along with other poultry, good layers, good grazers, good foragers, ideally not fly, be as quiet as possible (i have those annoying neighbours that complain about everything). Broodiness would be preferred.

The plan is to have chickens and ducks in seperate fields and in seperate housing.

How many ducks and chickens would I be able to keep in each field if I made them equal in size (75m2) without overgrazing?

How many ducks could utilise that bathtub pond if I were to empty it every week?

 

[Welshies]

I know you want ducks, but geese are far better grazers than ducks. Ducks and chickens don't eat the grass, but rather bugs, seeds, etc. They will help flatten it though, and ducks especially love clover.
Look into geese.
If you are set on ducks, though, look at heritage breeds. I suggest dual purpose, so you can cull and eat extra drakes that hatch out.
Cayugas are very pretty, and lay a beautiful black egg.
Silver Appleyards tend to be a favorite both for meat and brooding.
Muscovies are GREAT brooders, but love to fly, and very large.
Most good laying duck breeds aren't good brooders, but look into Welsh Harlequins and Pekins.

 

[lazy gardener]

What is your general location? Can you put it in your profile so it will always be there for reference?

Do you have any plans to garden in either of these areas? What is your expectation for what these areas will look like after the birds have been on them for a while? Even with the best of plans, you will find that your birds will turn part of their range into a moon scape, complete with dust bowls and craters. They will overgraze the vegetation they like, while leaving the tough and unpalatable weeds to take over the area. At best it will be a patchwork quilt of bare areas interspersed with craters, short vegetation areas and tall weedy growth.

Minimal recommendation of space needs for a back yard flock is 4 s.f. in coop per bird, and 10 s.f. in run per bird. Given your goals, I'd increase that amount of space to allow for the summer months when you have young birds growing out in addition to your keeper flock. My summer flock can be as high as 60 birds, with the fall winter flock varying from 15 - 30 birds.

Are these areas adjacent to each other? If so, would you want to build a single coop, with a "separate room for the ducks and the chickens?

If you want the birds to fertilize the ground, you might consider placing a coop in the middle of one section, with a fence dividing it into 2 areas. One area would be the chicken run the first year, and you would garden in the other section. When garden season is over, you could turn the flock loose in the garden, and close off their old run, allowing it to mellow until planting season.

Are eggs your main focus? Will you sell excess? or meat? Or do you want a fair amount of both? Your breed choice IMO should be driven by your climate, and your primary goals. Cold weather birds = small combs (rose, pea, walnut) Warm weather birds = large straight combs. I am not fond of the production sex links b/c they are prone to quick burn out.

 

[firefowl]

I know you want ducks, but geese are far better grazers than ducks. Ducks and chickens don't eat the grass, but rather bugs, seeds, etc. They will help flatten it though, and ducks especially love clover.

chickens don't eat grass? LOL I see my chickens eat grass all the time. In fact Araucana's are meant to be one of the better grazing breeds. I have plenty of clover and various weeds, they will eat some grass too I'm sure even if it's not their favourite.

Look into geese.

From what I understand 3 geese can eat as much grass as one sheep (that is 800m2). If I were to get geese I would need at least 2. I only have 175m2 maybe 200m2 tops If I extended it a little.

If you are set on ducks, though, look at heritage breeds. I suggest dual purpose, so you can cull and eat extra drakes that hatch out.
Cayugas are very pretty, and lay a beautiful black egg.
Silver Appleyards tend to be a favorite both for meat and brooding.
Muscovies are GREAT brooders, but love to fly, and very large.
Most good laying duck breeds aren't good brooders, but look into Welsh Harlequins and Pekins.

Thanks for the suggestions. Muscovies could be a good option, I don't think flying should be too much of an issue.

 

[Welshies]

chickens don't eat grass? LOL I see my chickens eat grass all the time. In fact Araucana's are meant to be one of the better grazing breeds.



From what I understand 3 geese can eat as much grass as one sheep (that is 800m2). If I were to get geese I would need at least 2. I only have 175m2 maybe 200m2 tops If I extended it a little.



Thanks for the suggestions. Muscovies could be a good option, I don't think flying should be too much of an issue.

You sure about that? Chickens far prefer leaves on grass (may be confusing that with actual grass), young sprouts, seeds, etc. Trust me
Okay, geese are the best grazers undoubtedly. Ever considered mallard ducks? They graze, but they are fliars also.
Muscovies are very hard to "ground" and even with clipped wings i have seen them fly 20+ feet (6m+) and jump 10 feet into the air. (9m)

 

[firefowl]

What is your general location? Can you put it in your profile so it will always be there for reference?

Yes, temperate Australia.

Do you have any plans to garden in either of these areas? What is your expectation for what these areas will look like after the birds have been on them for a while? Even with the best of plans, you will find that your birds will turn part of their range into a moon scape, complete with dust bowls and craters. They will overgraze the vegetation they like, while leaving the tough and unpalatable weeds to take over the area. At best it will be a patchwork quilt of bare areas interspersed with craters, short vegetation areas and tall weedy growth.

Well they have been there for 2 years now, there is hardly any dirt patches. Though some areas have been flattened out, dirt patches tend to regrow if left alone. I think it depends on how many birds you have and how you manage it. My plan initially was to divide it into 4 sections and each week graze 1 section so each section would get a rest of 3 weeks between grazings. A low stocking rate would be easier though.

Minimal recommendation of space needs for a back yard flock is 4 s.f. in coop per bird, and 10 s.f. in run per bird. Given your goals, I'd increase that amount of space to allow for the summer months when you have young birds growing out in addition to your keeper flock. My summer flock can be as high as 60 birds, with the fall winter flock varying from 15 - 30 birds.

I'm not really worried about coop space since they only sleep there. They have access to free range 24/7 I never need to close the coop up, predators aren't an issue here. 10 sq ft is only 3.3m2 per bird which means I could cram heaps into there but I don't want a moon scape so plan to keep much less than that.

Are these areas adjacent to each other? If so, would you want to build a single coop, with a "separate room for the ducks and the chickens?

Right next to each other. That's a good idea actually.

If you want the birds to fertilize the ground, you might consider placing a coop in the middle of one section, with a fence dividing it into 2 areas. One area would be the chicken run the first year, and you would garden in the other section. When garden season is over, you could turn the flock loose in the garden, and close off their old run, allowing it to mellow until planting season.

On the other side of the small field I will have a vegetable garden. I can give the ducks and chickens access to it at specific times. Letting a field mellow is a good idea, if I were to do this I would need to have ducks and chickens living together.

Are eggs your main focus? Will you sell excess? or meat? Or do you want a fair amount of both? Your breed choice IMO should be driven by your climate, and your primary goals. Cold weather birds = small combs (rose, pea, walnut) Warm weather birds = large straight combs. I am not fond of the production sex links b/c they are prone to quick burn out.

Main focus will be meat, I don't even know what a duck egg tastes like.

 

[Welshies]

Ducks and chickens can run together during daytime. When cooped up it is not as healthy or easy though.

 

[lazy gardener]

I don't care for duck eggs. The texture is a bit "rubbery" IMO. But, they are great for cooking. Your location makes a huge difference. And that you don't intend to stock densely is a good thing. Just b/c land might house x number of birds, that does not mean that is best for the land! You might like this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Small-Scale-Poultry-Flock-All-Natural-Approach/dp/1603582908

The author speaks of land management to ensure that you don't overload your soil with Phosphorous or Nitrogen b/c of stocking too densely.

He also has a small section dealing with ducks, IIRC.

 

[firefowl]

You sure about that? Chickens far prefer leaves on grass (may be confusing that with actual grass), young sprouts, seeds, etc. Trust me
Okay, geese are the best grazers undoubtedly. Ever considered mallard ducks? They graze, but they are fliars also.
Muscovies are very hard to "ground" and even with clipped wings i have seen them fly 20+ feet (6m+) and jump 10 feet into the air. (9m)

So you're saying they don't eat the growing tips on rye grasses and the like just the leaves? Yeah I suppose that's correct unless you're grass mainly consists of nitrogen fixers such as clovers, medics and the such. Here's an interesting publication on grazing chickens on perennial peanut https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/LM-20.pdf

Ducks and chickens can run together during daytime. When cooped up it is not as healthy or easy though.

Yeah housing seperately is the plan I had.

I don't care for duck eggs. The texture is a bit "rubbery" IMO. But, they are great for cooking. Your location makes a huge difference. And that you don't intend to stock densely is a good thing. Just b/c land might house x number of birds, that does not mean that is best for the land! You might like this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Small-Scale-Poultry-Flock-All-Natural-Approach/dp/1603582908

The author speaks of land management to ensure that you don't overload your soil with Phosphorous or Nitrogen b/c of stocking too densely.

He also has a small section dealing with ducks, IIRC.

Thanks I'll have to check that out. I had a soil test done and my soil a couple years ago and it was deficient in N and P. Also it's a very hard clay soil, I think it's definitely benefited from chickens pasturing on it. There are less weeds and more healthy grass on the areas the chickens are run on then the other areas of the backyard.

 

[lazy gardener]

I agree with you that chickens and ducks (for that matter any animal that poops!) will improve the soil. However, there does come a point when there has been too much N or P added to the soil, and that can be even more detrimental to the land than a deficiency. You and I are not likely to ever reach that point, if we manage our acreage correctly. But, it is something to keep in mind.