From a breeding standpoint which silkie cockerel would be best to keep?

[Cloverr39]

I have 2 chicks that I really want to keep. They come from better lines than mine. Unfortunately I think they're both gonna be cockerels. If one ends up being a pullet than this whole thing won't matter anymore, but assuming they're cockerels which one would be better to keep? They're 4 weeks old (will be 5 weeks in 3 days).

For context: I have 3 black silkie hens (at least 2 have recessive white) and a black roo with silver leakage and "twisted wing" where his primary feathers go over his secondary. He's also kind of more on the bigger side and also carries recessive white. Unfortunately the test breeding with him didn't go well and I'd like to replace him for next years breeding.

This is what I'd like to breed:
Either paint or bbs (blue, black, splash),
Shorter legs, not as big roosters, bigger crests and beards, soft wing and foot feathers and at least a couple feathers on the middle finger.

Chick #1 Pookie.
He's silver blue partridge.
Soft foot feathers, semi-soft wings (not exactly hard feathers) nice big poofy tail, kinda nice legs, no feathers on middle finger, comb already turning a bit pink.
He had what looked like twisted wing when he was little, but now the wings look normal.

Chick #2 Cloud.
I'm like 95% sure his mom was paint and dad was buff. He's white with buff in the tips of his wings and beige on his back, neck and crest. The camera has a hard time picking up the buff and beige tones. He also has a single black feather on his wing. I really like his legs. The foot feathers are soft, long, and he has a couple feathers on the middle toe. Wings are soft. Crests aren't fully grown on either of them, but I'm pretty sure they'll be bigger than the hens I have currently.

I'm not even sure if breeding Cloud to a black hen would result in paint. If it wouldn't than there's probably not much of a point in keeping him?? I'm unsure if I want to breed for color or better body traits(?) more, but I'd probably pick color.

Any thoughts or suggestions? I know the real decision is months away, but I'd like to decide sooner. I'm hatching around 6 chicks from the same flock as these 2, so maybe I'll find something better there, but by the time those chicks will be this age these ones will be way older.

 

[Fluffy Lambs]

I have 2 chicks that I really want to keep. They come from better lines than mine. Unfortunately I think they're both gonna be cockerels. If one ends up being a pullet than this whole thing won't matter anymore, but assuming they're cockerels which one would be better to keep? They're 4 weeks old (will be 5 weeks in 3 days).

For context: I have 3 black silkie hens (at least 2 have recessive white) and a black roo with silver leakage and "twisted wing" where his primary feathers go over his secondary. He's also kind of more on the bigger side and also carries recessive white. Unfortunately the test breeding with him didn't go well and I'd like to replace him for next years breeding.

This is what I'd like to breed:
Either paint or bbs.
Shorter legs, not as big roosters, bigger crests and beards, soft wing and foot feathers and at least a couple feathers on the middle finger.

Chick #1 Pookie.
He's blue or blue partridge.
Soft foot feathers, semi-soft wings (not exactly hard feathers) nice big poofy tail, kinda nice legs, no feathers on middle finger, comb already turning a bit pink.
He had what looked like twisted wing when he was little, but now the wings look normal.
View attachment 3123398View attachment 3123400View attachment 3123401View attachment 3123412View attachment 3123402View attachment 3123403

Chick #2 Cloud.
I'm like 95% sure his mom was paint and dad was buff. He's white with buff in his wings and beige on his back, neck and crest. The camera has a hard time picking up the buff and beige tones. He also has a single black feather on his wing. I really like his legs. The foot feathers are soft, long, and he has a couple feathers on the middle toe. Wings are soft. Crests aren't fully grown on either of them, but I'm pretty sure they'll be bigger than the hens I have currently.
View attachment 3123406View attachment 3123407View attachment 3123413View attachment 3123411


I'm not even sure if breeding Cloud to a black hen would result in paint. If it wouldn't than there's probably not much of a point in keeping him?? I'm unsure if I want to breed for color or better body traits(?) more, but I'd probably pick color.

Any thoughts or suggestions? I know the real decision is months away, but I'd like to decide sooner. I'm hatching around 6 chicks from the same flock as these 2, so maybe I'll find something better there, but by the time those chicks will be this age these ones will be way older.

I'm not very knowledgeable on these this is just what I would do- for body traits keep pookie but I'm not sure what color you get breeding him maybe like grey or black with silver leakage I don't think he would make splash though.

For color I would keep Cloud, if he has a beige look I think that means he's recessive white (@MysteryChicken knows a lot more about it than me) so breeding him would probably give you some paint chicks, I think.


@LadiesAndJane @LynnaePB

 

[Cloverr39]

Breeding pookie would be the same as breeding with a blue as far as I know. So I think breeding with black would give me 50% black, 50% blue, but maybe a bit more leaky?

I think Cloud might have one copy of dominant white, but I don't know how the buff in him would effect his offspring.

I'm also really tempted to keep pookie bc of the blue, couse blue and splash is really hard to find where I am. My thoughts on breeding pookie would be to keep a blue hen and then breed her back to him to maybe get a couple splash and blue (and black) chicks.

 

[MysteryChicken]

I'm not very knowledgeable on these this is just what I would do- for body traits keep pookie but I'm not sure what color you get breeding him maybe like grey or black with silver leakage I don't think he would make splash though.

For color I would keep Cloud, if he has a beige look I think that means he's recessive white (@MysteryChicken knows a lot more about it than me) so breeding him would probably give you some paint chicks, I think.


@LadiesAndJane @LynnaePB

Recessive white has a silvery tone, not beige.
The beige, or what some call it Dun(Not Feather Color Gene, to steer from confusion) is due to being Dominant White.


Recessive white(Screenshot)

Variations of Dominant White

 

[MysteryChicken]

Breeding pookie would be the same as breeding with a blue as far as I know. So I think breeding with black would give me 50% black, 50% blue, but maybe a bit more leaky?

I think Cloud might have one copy of dominant white, but I don't know how the buff in him would effect his offspring.

I'm also really tempted to keep pookie bc of the blue, couse blue and splash is really hard to find where I am. My thoughts on breeding pookie would be to keep a blue hen and then breed her back to him to maybe get a couple splash and blue (and black) chicks.

Your boy, Pookie is Silver, blue partridge. Blue of any variation behaves the same, by creating Blues, Blacks, & Splashes. The only difference would be the other coloration that the bird has besides blue will get passed on too. Giving some leakage.

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

These are WAAAAY too young to make a good call on who to keep for type. They may look okay now, but grow up and have the wrong type. Some of mine are a good example of that, looking perfectly fluffy and poofy as juveniles and maturing into scrawny, skinny, upright birds with poor crest feathering. That's how I prefer my Silkies to look, personally, but for breeding toward the standard, they are certainly not ideal. Anyway, point being, if you were to decide to breed for type, you'd need to wait a long time to pick the appropriate one.

Reddish hues on a white chick are generally dominant white, yes, while more of a silvery or smoky-gray hue is recessive white. If your chick came from a Paint rooster, then he has dominant White. Paint, genetically, is one copy of dominant white over an otherwise solid black bird, so dominant white is what you want there. However, if he also came out of a Buff parent, he might not be the greatest for breeding Paints because he will likely pass on that leakage you're already seeing.

Honestly, if you're wanting to breed specifically for color, neither of these birds are great. Both will likely impart leakage to their offspring with solid Black hens. That's assuming that Pookie is a partridge of some sort, to which I defer to the Silkie people as I'm not that great with Silkie varieties beyond the simple ones like Paint and solid colors. If I were you, I'd hold out for the next hatch and hope for a solid Blue or a Paint without leakage.

 

[Cloverr39]

These are WAAAAY too young to make a good call on who to keep for type. They may look okay now, but grow up and have the wrong type. Some of mine are a good example of that, looking perfectly fluffy and poofy as juveniles and maturing into scrawny, skinny, upright birds with poor crest feathering. That's how I prefer my Silkies to look, personally, but for breeding toward the standard, they are certainly not ideal. Anyway, point being, if you were to decide to breed for type, you'd need to wait a long time to pick the appropriate one.

Reddish hues on a white chick are generally dominant white, yes, while more of a silvery or smoky-gray hue is recessive white. If your chick came from a Paint rooster, then he has dominant White. Paint, genetically, is one copy of dominant white over an otherwise solid black bird, so dominant white is what you want there. However, if he also came out of a Buff parent, he might not be the greatest for breeding Paints because he will likely pass on that leakage you're already seeing.

Honestly, if you're wanting to breed specifically for color, neither of these birds are great. Both will likely impart leakage to their offspring with solid Black hens. That's assuming that Pookie is a partridge of some sort, to which I defer to the Silkie people as I'm not that great with Silkie varieties beyond the simple ones like Paint and solid colors. If I were you, I'd hold out for the next hatch and hope for a solid Blue or a Paint without leakage.

Yeah I still have a while until I have to make a choice. And I sort of had the same thing happen with my current roo. At around 8 months old I decided to keep him and he was looking nice, fluffy, nice crest and beard, but as he matured he turned into the opposite. This is only my 2nd year raising silkies so still a lot more to learn.

I'm really hoping I'll get something nice from the next hatch, but the parents are different colors and some I can't even tell what color that is. I know 2 hens are paint, 1 is splash, a couple look blue partridge, 1 looks buff with a blue head and white tail, another hen looks white with a buff head and beige color chest. Roos are buff and dark blue. In the photos they sent me I saw a paint roo, but the owner didn't mention a 3rd roo when she listed her roosters.

In short, I'm hoping for some better colors, but I doubt that that'll happen.

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

Ah, yeah, getting chicks from a mixed-color pen isn't going to help you much with breeding for color, unfortunately. Even if they end up looking fine on the outside, they could be carrying genes that make them throw off-colored chicks. I do hope you're able to get what you're looking for out of them, though! Sometimes just the experience of crossing birds with different colors and hatching from them can be valuable, even if the resulting chicks, themselves, aren't exactly what you're looking for.

 

[LynnaePB]

It's just too hard to tell anything about type so young so I'll just focus on color. I think others here have answered that fairly well already but maybe I can add a bit more as well.

It sounds like out of all your options you are probably be going to be dealing with a mish mash of genes no matter the boy you choose. That's fine if you don't mind, mixed color flocks can have some really beautiful and unique colors.

With Pookie you can breed generally more towards blue, you might get some gray (silver partridge) if any of your girls happen to be split to eb on their e-allele. If they came from a mixed color flock that would definitely be a possibility. So blues, blacks, and possibly grays (both blue and black based) all with the possibility of leakage are probably what you'd get with Pookie as the father over black hens.

Now with Cloud from what I can see and how you are describing him it seems that he is probably closer to a red pyle (or at least the closest we have to pyle in silkies). They are partridge based with the addition of dominant white in silkies. A bit different than a paint but similar (paint is heterozygous dominant white over black and he is likely heterozygous dominant white over partridge). Probably with some genes to extend pheomelanin being the father is buff. That would mean his paint mother was probably split on her e-allele to eb (fairly common with paints being a newer variety, I breed paints and find partridge and recessive white hide in a lot of lines as well as occasionally blue and even mottled). Over black hens you'll probably get paint and black chicks, also probably with the possibility of leakage. If any of the hens are split to eb on the e-allele you also may get some partridge and more red pyle like babies as well. How large the spots will be on the paints is hard to say.

 

[Cloverr39]

Thank you! I'll update how the both of them are looking in about month. I know getting chicks from a mixed color flock could mean they have a ton of odd colors hidden in them or they're a mixed color themselves. But these chicks are the closest I'll get to something better than what I have already. And I might only keep them for next year and then look into getting a rooster that would get me better kids. Thanks for all the help. I feel like I understand it more clearly now.