GOATS: CAE and the chances.

[Kelly G]

I knowingly purchased a CAE positive goat (I didn't know it was CAE - but I knew she was sick). She has significant joint pain (banamine), but it has improved with a better diet, vet care, and TLC.

I paid more than I should have...but she deserved a major upgrade in her living conditions...

Here she is the day we bought her (Oct '09):

...and here she is now - I can't find one without a blanket!!! We've had such a cold winter!

Anyway. We are not sorry we bought her. We'd do it again - she's such a joy! We signed up with our local goat rescue to take in another CAE positive goat if they find one that needs a home...then Gabby could have some company of her own (right now she hangs with my horses & eats their food every chance she gets!)

What I'd say is: I would not breed a goat who is CAE positive. But I would certainly buy one - especially if it needed a life-style upgrade!

To each his own.

 

[dot n'dave]

The goats are for milk.
Also she didn't say they tested positive or had CAE, she said she has had it in her flock.
I'm going to ask her more specifically, which, when and if any show signs anymore. This farm has a cheese making business, feeds these goats organic food, and has literally 20 does kidding this year. She sells her cheese products in many places in the area and has many events at the farm. She seems like she know whats what.
I'll feel alot better after asking her a few more questions.

 

[ksalvagno]

KellyG - Gabby looks great. Long time since I have seen a picture. Glad she is doing so well.

That is a great idea to ask more questions. The other thing you can do if you want to buy from her is to have the goats tested before leaving the farm (if they are adults). CAE isn't a problem for people. It is a problem for the goats. If you read up more on CAE then you can decide where you want to go from there.

 

[KellyHM]

The first 2 Nubian does I ever bought have CAE. I didn't know it at the time, but I tested everyone a couple months ago and they were both positive. I have them separated from the remainder of my herd and will retest everyone again in 6 months to make sure it wasn't transmitted. I still plan on breeding them, but will tape their teats and pull the kids immediately so it won't be passed on. Eventually I will get rid of them, but at this point that's not financially feasible. However, anything I buy from now on will be on the condition that they're CAE negative. The problem is finding people that actually test for it - most people don't want to spend the money.

Kelly G - I'm not too far from you. Maybe after I breed these girls again and get the kids they can retire at your farm? They're super sweet and I don't want to destroy them.

ETA: CAE is VERY common since most people don't test. I think it's great that the breeder was honest with you, unlike the lady who sold the infected does to me (I found out later she knew their mother was positive all along). Just because an animal is positive doesn't mean they will ever show signs of the disease, so they can live perfectly normal lives as pets. They just shouldn't be allowed to nurse their kids.

 

[Kelly G]

KellyMH - we'd be thrilled to do that. Gabby loves the horses...but I know she'd love a companion of her own! We could meet up at the chicken swap in Lakeland! Or you could come out to our place

whichever! Contact me anytime - the offer extends to whenever!

eta - I have become a complete sucker for Nubians!!! Those EARS!!! I just love them!


Ksalvagno - Thanks!!! I wondered if anyone would remember her!! She looks cute in her blanket, doesn't she? Even though we don't get as cold here in Florida as much of the country, we had a pretty cold winter...and Gabby was frequently shivering. Poor thing. So, she got a big-girl blanket just like the horses! She hated it the first day, but smartened up pretty quick and now she comes running to me when I'm carrying it

Thank you for remembering her!

 

[bargain]

Hi, we test our flock for CAE & CL....Although the milk from CAE can be used to make cheeses, etc (it doesn't affect humans) it can cause serious problems for the goats as previously discussed here.

We also are very protective of persons who come to the property in the event that they might track in diseases into our goat's area.Even for buyers, we practice extreme biosecurity as it relates to the goat area.

It's a personal call, for those of you that rescue and help animals, may God bless you all for your loving care.

I think it was very admirable of the woman to be open about her situation. I would also suggest you might ask her if she would get blood samples on the one she is selling so that you would know what you are getting into if that is of concern.

Also, if she could keep the prospect goat in a separate area until the tests come back. That would also be help ful...

While she's drawing blood you may also want to test for CAE, CL and Johns Disease (if it's in your area)...

Very interesting thread.

Have a blessed day

 

[cmjust0]

Quote:
I second that.. I remember seeing her starting off pics, too...so good to see her looking so much better.

You did a really, really great thing.

 

[cmjust0]

dot n'dave :

The goats are for milk.

I'd pass then.. If they were just pets, brush clearers, or even commercial meat goats, I would personally have at least considered it if they were otherwise healthy and CAE was the only problem.. In some herds, CAE is literally the least of the worries among all the other diseases carried.

The thing you have to consider is that milk goats only produce milk after they kid.. That means you're gonna have kids. Unless you plan to continually keep all the offspring, you're going to have to sell some kids.. You see the overwhelming advice you've gotten here..."DON'T DO IT!"...that's the same advice everyone gets when they ask if it's OK to buy CAE+ milk goats. It's the same advice a potential buyer of your goat kids would get, too..

So unless you want to heat treat milk and colostrum and bottle feed every...single...kid...born out of the CAE+ goats, plus pull blood and test every single kid just to have a piece of paper to show someone, you're going to have a hard time moving kids.. Well, unless of course you sell them as commercials through a salebarn for a few dollars a piece.

Also she didn't say they tested positive or had CAE, she said she has had it in her flock.
I'm going to ask her more specifically, which, when and if any show signs anymore. This farm has a cheese making business, feeds these goats organic food, and has literally 20 does kidding this year. She sells her cheese products in many places in the area and has many events at the farm. She seems like she know whats what.
I'll feel alot better after asking her a few more questions.

If I were going to ask questions, I'd ask "So, can I see a CAE blood test result on this goat?"

That's the only question that matters, really, because that's what the buyers of your kids are going to ask for as well.​

 

[Cara]

The problem with blood tests is that a goat infected with CAE but who has not produced antibodies will test negative but still can shed the virus and infect other goats. Since not all CAE-infected goats have produced antibodies, false negatives are possible.

Here is some useful information

Goats can carry CAE their entire lives and never show an outward sign of it. These silently-infected animals can test negative for the antibody until stress or some other factor activates it.

Complicating the matter even more, it is also possible to have negative kids out of a positive dam. Further, a dam who has given birth to twins can produce one offspring which tests positive and another that tests negative. . . out of the same litter. Kids under six months of age are extremely difficult to test accurately for CAE, so most laboratories recommend waiting until the offspring are eight months to one year old.

Several types of CAE tests exist and have varying degrees of accuracy. The ELISA test is generally recognized as the most reliable, displaying a sensitivity to CAE of up to 95.2%; the AGID test has produced results as low as 56%. These figures may be misleading, as many variables can affect the percentage results.

Since many meat goats will be slaughtered young and humans are not at risk, why should meat-goat producers be concerned about having CAE in their herd? There are three very good reasons for maintaining a disease-free herd:

The long-term health of the herd directly affects sales and, therefore, profits. CAE-infected does produce up to 25% less milk than non-infected dams . . . assuming that they have milk at all. In production meat-goat herds, multiple births are desired, so milk production is important in raising marketable kids. Just as mastitis is not a desired condition, so is CAE. Less milk = smaller kids = reduced profit. Producers of breeding stock must offer disease-free herd sires and dams. Buyers will not pay top dollar for infected animals and will often require testing of animals prior to purchasing them. If the producer is shipping out-of-state or out-of-the-country, it is highly likely that these tests are required by animal health regulations. CAE is incurable at this time.​

 

[cmjust0]

Quote:
There's also the problem of false positives when testing. I've heard of people having one home-bred goat in an entire herd pop up positive all of a sudden, while its dam continues to test negative. Given that the vast majority of goats are infected as kids through their CAE+ dam's colostrum, and that no other goats in the closed herd are positive...how does something like that happen?

CAE transmission among adults is rare anyway.. So even if you do get a false negative in one goat, the likelihood that the positive goat is going to infect the rest of the herd is very low.

We actually bought a buck out of a known-CAE+ dam.. He was bottlefed from a clean doe, and the owners had him tested before we bought him at close to a year....he was negative. The whole rest of their herd was negative except this one doe who was out there eating from the same bunks and pans and drinking from the same troughs, walking around, peeing and pooping in the same pasture and stalls as everyone else.. No problem. Just had to snatch rear her kids.

She was slick as a whistle, too.. Nice thin knees.. Indeed, she was a really nice doe and totally asymptomatic.

I'll be really frank here...when we first got into goats, CAE seemed like a much, much bigger deal than it does now. I'm not saying "CAE is no big deal" -- it is, from a sales standpoint if nothing else -- I just don't consider it as big a health issue as it once seemed.. These days, I kinda liken it to herpes virus in humans...not the 'junk kind' (HSV-2), but the 'lip kind' (HSV-1).

If you were to blood test everyone in the United States for HSV-1, statistics tell us that anywhere from 50% to 90% would pop up positive...

At first, that sounds kinda scary...but then you realize that there's a good chance you've got it, too, and you kinda go....ok, so what does it mean to be HSV-1 positive? How will it affect me?!?

Uh...well...chances are it won't, and you'll be totally asymptomatic.

And then you're kinda like...oh...well who cares then?!?

My point is that just because you can test for something doesn't make it a particularly meaningful test from a herd-health standpoint -- especially if the majority of goats will be asymptomatic. Heck, who knows...maybe if folks continue breeding asymptomatic CAE+ animals and cull symptomatic animals, all goats may someday be asymptomatic.. Maybe that's why the vast majority of CAE+ cases are asymptomatic today?!?

That's reaching, of course, and not something I'd particularly recommend....I'm just sayin'.